Media

[brightonr]

Tim.

Your assumption that those who voted to leave didn't fully understand the issues, is the single most idiotic excuse I have seen used since the vote. There are far too many good reasons to want to exit this inept and corrupt organisation to list.

As for your laughable "get out clause" to blame those that voted to remain, (although it was yourself that used the term "remoaners"), nothing could be further from the truth. Everything will be fine for us just as it was always going to be. The whingeing and bleating simply delays the start of better times, but no big deal in the great scheme of things, other than create the uncertainty that business and the more nervous people require.

One only needs to look at the behaviour of the EU since the vote, their increasingly desperate attempts to try to get more money from us and their ridiculous negotiating tactics, to confirm that leaving it is the right thing to do.

Perhaps someone could explain to me why when Cameron went out to negotiate better terms and was basically told to do one, he came back and attempted to persuade us to stay in?

[Tim]

Brighton, I'm suggesting that there was not enough information out there to start with for either side! So not leave voters, all voters!

It really isn't laughable, I've heard it numerous times already and have had it thrown at me already on several occasions. I would be far more concerned about not being a part of a major trading block in which these companies trade in relation to business uncertainty.

I understand in a certain respect that the EU is trying to make an example of the UK and by doing so this will have a negative impact for them, nowhere near the impact likely on the UK but this is for self preservation against further negative impact if any other member states were to follow suit.

Don't know the details of Cameron's negotiations, however I would suspect he was told 'to do one' as what he was proposing was not in the best interest of the EU and he had sod all to offer that the EU considered beneficial.

In no way am I suggesting that the EU is perfect and as you point out there is corruption, as there is with the UK government, but for me reform comes from within.

[Stanley]

I would be far more concerned about not being a part of a major trading block in which these companies trade in relation to business uncertainty.

Just as one example, Japan isn't part of any major trading block and it's the third largest economy on the planet, so I'd say they're doing pretty well by themselves.

In no way am I suggesting that the EU is perfect and as you point out there is corruption, as there is with the UK government, but for me reform comes from within.

There is arguably even worse corruption within the EU and certainly far less accountability. For example:

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

[Johnnykc]

Great to see so many knowledgeable people on here regarding the definite outcomes of leaving the European Union.......I think anyone who has a business in the UK or in mainland Europe would do very well to read this thread and enjoy the benefits of so many great minds....

[lymehoop]

Great to see so many knowledgeable people on here regarding the definite outcomes of leaving the European Union.......I think anyone who has a business in the UK or in mainland Europe would do very well to read this thread and enjoy the benefits of so many great minds....

sarcasm, the lowest form of wit. How's Macron doing in France Johnny?

[Johnnykc]

sarcasm, the lowest form of wit. How's Macron doing in France Johnny?

to be honest Lymes it's one of my favourite forms of wit....

[lymehoop]

to be honest Lymes it's one of my favourite forms of wit....

on a serious note, what is the general feeling of our imminent departure from the EU from our Gallic cousins?

[Bill]

on a serious note, what is the general feeling of our imminent departure from the EU from our Gallic cousins?

Get every last euro out of the british ...........cause we are going to struggle without them especially the French and Germans
who are going to have to prop it all up on their jack jones.

[Johnnykc]

on a serious note, what is the general feeling of our imminent departure from the EU from our Gallic cousins?

I can only speak for my friends there Lymes and I will say that there is a genuine feeling of sadness and uncertainty...... they all appreciate that the Union isn't perfect but feel that we would have been better off trying to influence change from within.

I'm due back in France as soon as winter kicks off so I'll let you know if their opinions have hardened!

[brightonr]

I can only speak for my friends there Lymes and I will say that there is a genuine feeling of sadness and uncertainty...... they all appreciate that the Union isn't perfect but feel that we would have been better off trying to influence change from within.

I'm due back in France as soon as winter kicks off so I'll let you know if their opinions have hardened!

We’ve been trying to influence them from within for 40 years Johnny.

Unfortunately, they’ve decided not to listen. Only got themselves to blame, I’m afraid.

[lymehoop]

We’ve been trying to influence them from within for 40 years Johnny.

Unfortunately, they’ve decided not to listen. Only got themselves to blame, I’m afraid.

[Johnnykc]

We’ve been trying to influence them from within for 40 years Johnny.

Unfortunately, they’ve decided not to listen. Only got themselves to blame, I’m afraid.

The United Kingdom was/is viewed as a reluctant half arsed member of the EU.... never really committing just in case our all important ‘britishness’ was diluted....why would they listen?

Only got ourselves to blame, I’m afraid....

[Hubble]

The United Kingdom was/is viewed as a reluctant half arsed member of the EU.... never really committing just in case our all important ‘britishness’ was diluted....why would they listen?

Only got ourselves to blame, I’m afraid....

But what was the choice Johnny? To become fully integrated members of the EU would have meant giving up sovereignty of our own currency - a massive issue as far as I'm concerned - and we rightly didn't do that. The fact is, as you (kind of ) say, we were never full members, because we always retained some measure of independence. How has full economic integration worked out for Greece? Or Italy, or Spain or Portugal. Not so good. The things is Britain has never been truly 'European', quite simply because of its geography. There is definitely a continental mentality that differs from the island mentality. And I think that's the great thing about this country - it's no coincidence that for centuries we've punched well above our weight internationally. The problem we have now, as I see it, is not that we are leaving the European financial basket-case and superstate, but that we have bunch of clowns in charge of the process.

We are now in a strange kind of limbo, which suits no one in particular. We need not just strong leadership, but a clear and understandable vision of how we progress, that the majority of people can buy into. If such a plan were laid out, I believe most remainers would get on board with the process. And with the will of the people behind it, we would stand every chance of success. But currently, we have a minority government, shored up by an unholy alliance with the DUP, that is at war with itself and in disarray. This is a problem. for me the best tihng would be to reject this government and have a general election where we could vote on the best vision for this country, without the lies, disinformation and emotional blackmail that featured above anything meaningful - on both sides of the referendum campaign.

If Corbyn declared his true colours, which I believe are to leave the European superstate project - he might lose support in some areas, but garner a whole raft more from others. He could hoover up the UKIP vote if he presented a coherent vision of a UK that was inclusive, supportive of the ordinary person, based on a solid, practical socialism that was simply about allowing the state to run basic utilities for the benefit of the people, not for the profit of a minority. You can have a socialist backbone to society and still have a capitalist economy that runs on top of it, that allows for the wealth to be far more fairly distributed. All most people want is security of tenure and employment and a sense of stability and peace. 40 years of Thatcherite, neo-liberal policies have destroyed this country, not by directly impoverishing it, but by siphoning more and more of the wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people, selling off our publicly owned utilities to foreign interests and at the same time destroying the communal fabric of Britain that was the glue that held things together. By creating a nation of individuals, competing against each other for resources, we have created a society that is anxious, aggressive and not at ease with itself. We need to take the best of socialism and combine it with the best of capitalism - which is to say we have social safety nets, affordable housing, free education at every level, good healthcare, but also fostering an environment for our amazing talent to flourish. The current system, whereby people are punished financially at every stage - saddled with debt and insecurity - does not create a good environment for creativity to flourish.

No matter who it was, from whatever party, if they presented this kind of cohesive vision to the British public, I think they'd win, and then we could manage our secession from the EU smoothly and to the benefit of all.

[lymehoop]

The United Kingdom was/is viewed as a reluctant half arsed member of the EU.... never really committing just in case our all important ‘britishness’ was diluted....why would they listen?

Only got ourselves to blame, I’m afraid....

two major issues why many voted to leave was freedom of movement and the ECJ. The EU are steadfast in their refusal to move on these two issues. Which basically means we would still be in the EU. Travelling on the tube Saturday is reason enough to call a halt to 300,000 incomers each year. Cattle trucks comes to mind

[Johnnykc]

But what was the choice Johnny? To become fully integrated members of the EU would have meant giving up sovereignty of our own currency - a massive issue as far as I'm concerned - and we rightly didn't do that. The fact is, as you (kind of ) say, we were never full members, because we always retained some measure of independence. How has full economic integration worked out for Greece? Or Italy, or Spain or Portugal. Not so good. The things is Britain has never been truly 'European', quite simply because of its geography. There is definitely a continental mentality that differs from the island mentality. And I think that's the great thing about this country - it's no coincidence that for centuries we've punched well above our weight internationally. The problem we have now, as I see it, is not that we are leaving the European financial basket-case and superstate, but that we have bunch of clowns in charge of the process.

We are now in a strange kind of limbo, which suits no one in particular. We need not just strong leadership, but a clear and understandable vision of how we progress, that the majority of people can buy into. If such a plan were laid out, I believe most remainers would get on board with the process. And with the will of the people behind it, we would stand every chance of success. But currently, we have a minority government, shored up by an unholy alliance with the DUP, that is at war with itself and in disarray. This is a problem. for me the best tihng would be to reject this government and have a general election where we could vote on the best vision for this country, without the lies, disinformation and emotional blackmail that featured above anything meaningful - on both sides of the referendum campaign.

If Corbyn declared his true colours, which I believe are to leave the European superstate project - he might lose support in some areas, but garner a whole raft more from others. He could hoover up the UKIP vote if he presented a coherent vision of a UK that was inclusive, supportive of the ordinary person, based on a solid, practical socialism that was simply about allowing the state to run basic utilities for the benefit of the people, not for the profit of a minority. You can have a socialist backbone to society and still have a capitalist economy that runs on top of it, that allows for the wealth to be far more fairly distributed. All most people want is security of tenure and employment and a sense of stability and peace. 40 years of Thatcherite, neo-liberal policies have destroyed this country, not by directly impoverishing it, but by siphoning more and more of the wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer people, selling off our publicly owned utilities to foreign interests and at the same time destroying the communal fabric of Britain that was the glue that held things together. By creating a nation of individuals, competing against each other for resources, we have created a society that is anxious, aggressive and not at ease with itself. We need to take the best of socialism and combine it with the best of capitalism - which is to say we have social safety nets, affordable housing, free education at every level, good healthcare, but also fostering an environment for our amazing talent to flourish. The current system, whereby people are punished financially at every stage - saddled with debt and insecurity - does not create a good environment for creativity to flourish.

No matter who it was, from whatever party, if they presented this kind of cohesive vision to the British public, I think they'd win, and then we could manage our secession from the EU smoothly and to the benefit of all.

Great post and as usual find myself in full agreement with you...... the only difference being, that I have no problem with adopting the Euro as our currency.

The countries you mention as not benefiting from full integration in the EU are not in the same boat as Great Britain.....every leave voter here keeps harping on about what a ‘leader’ the uk is and how strong we are as a business nation ..”Everything will be fine for us” etc etc....apart from a small minded reluctance to change , how could we NOT thrive as a full EU member?

Rest of your post is absolutely bang on, and even though I am a true European, I believe in democracy and only want this departure not to be an absolute #### up....