Westminster / Manchester / London Bridge / Parsons Green attacks

[Hove Ranger]

Spot on the money as always Hovis.

Just my humble opinion Hubba bubba

[Stanley]

Just my humble opinion...

Your opinion yes, but I'd be interested to know your sources? How do we know it's not coming from parties out to discredit him? We all know he has plenty of opponents. The questioning from friends and family doesn't surprise me considering he comes from an orthodox Muslim background. I would also question the neocon links, considering his own politics is far from right-wing. He's in fact a Lib Dem in his politics and has even stood for them; and Quilliam is left-of-centre.

All that aside though, for argument's sake lets assume that all your claims are true, (and I didnt know any of that which is why I said 'I'm genuinely interested') - what about the actual message they're putting across?

This from its Wiki entry:

"Quilliam is a London-based left-of-center think tank that focuses on counter-extremism, specifically against Islamism, which it argues represents a desire to impose a given interpretation of Islam on society. Founded as The Quilliam Foundation, it lobbies government and public institutions for more nuanced policies regarding Islam and on the need for greater democracy in the Muslim world whilst empowering moderate Muslim voices.

According to one of its co-founders, Maajid Nawaz, "We wish to raise awareness around Islamism"; he also said, "I want to demonstrate how the Islamist ideology is incompatible with Islam. Secondly … develop a Western Islam that is at home in Britain and in Europe … reverse radicalisation by taking on their arguments and countering them."

The organisation opposes any Islamist ideology and champions freedom of expression. The critique of Islamist ideology by its founders, Maajid Nawaz, Rashad Zaman Ali and Ed Husain, is based, in part, on their personal experiences."

How many here would honestly oppose those aims and objectives in general?

They're an independent organisation which relies solely on private donations and grants in order to carry out its work.

Furthermore, I have to ask - who is the real enemy here? Who is the real fifth column in our midst? Someone like Maajid Nawaz who's not even a practicing Muslim and who devotes his life to combating and challenging Islamism, Jihadism and radicalisation in all its forms? Or is it the 23,000 Jihadist sympathasisers (according to official figures) who, as we speak, are freely walking the streets of Britain? I would suggest it's the latter and perhaps we'd be wise not to take our eye off the ball there.

The only reason this came up in the conversation is because I cited their work as an example of how the UK's current terrorism problems is not "almost completely" down to foreign policy, but also to do with Islamic extremism - something I think most of us agree on - and our consensus on that fact matters significantly more than the exact identity of some of Quilliam's donors, I would argue.

[Hubble]

Breaking news: looks like the Spanish hero who defended a woman who was being stabbed was accidentally shot by the police who thought he was a terrorist. Apparently the news is being withheld until after the election.

Only available in Spanish at the moment, so probably not much use to people on here, although roughly the video says that the narrator spoke with some reporters who say it is almost definite the Spaniard was shot by the police because he was down on the ground and they thought he was one of the jihadists. That obviously it's not 100% but nearly sure. That it is not being made public until after the election because it would damage Teresa May. That similar hidden things happen in Spain but that now we see it here in the UK as well and that it is a "mafioso situation".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jeJ_V6Qi18&feature=share

[brightonr]

Christ Hubble, not another conspiracy theory !!

Have to say I doubt if I know anybody who would change their voting intention due to a possible mistake by a police officer under intense pressure.

Really can't believe we have stooped to this level.

[Hubble]

Christ Hubble, not another conspiracy theory !!

Have to say I doubt if I know anybody who would change their voting intention due to a possible mistake by a police officer under intense pressure.

Really can't believe we have stooped to this level.

Simply passing on what was sent to me. Don't think any stooping is involved.

[brightonr]

On a separate point, what do you think about the story of the BBC report where it's claimed that they edited it and removed certain "words" said by the three supposedly muslim women who are believed to have attacked a young lady in Wanstead?

Or the staged CNN clip where the reporter was talking to some supposedly random muslim women, not realising it was all being filmed by someone else?

Both extremely dubious episodes but I haven't heard any rumours that Jezza's behind them.

[brightonr]

Simply passing on what was sent to me. Don't think any stooping is involved.

I disagree. I very much think that both the government and the police have stooped to a new low, should they be holding things back in an attempt to influence an election.

Do you not?

[Hubble]

On a separate point, what do you think about the story of the BBC report where it's claimed that they edited it and removed certain "words" said by the three supposedly muslim women who are believed to have attacked a young lady in Wanstead?

Or the staged CNN clip where the reporter was talking to some supposedly random muslim women, not realising it was all being filmed by someone else?

Both extremely dubious episodes but I haven't heard any rumours that Jezza's behind them.

I've seen that CNN clip - totally faked by CNN - I will see if I can find it. Wouldn't surprise me at all if BBC edited/airbrushed that report either. Good to see you're looking outside the box Brights.

[Hubble]

Here you go:

[brightonr]

I've seen that CNN clip - totally faked by CNN - I will see if I can find it. Wouldn't surprise me at all if BBC edited/airbrushed that report either. Good to see you're looking outside the box Brights.

I do try to mate.

Although the more of this I see, the more disgusted I am with the behaviour of some people and the less hopeful I am of a decent future for all of us.

[Hubble]

I do try to mate.

Although the more of this I see, the more disgusted I am with the behaviour of some people and the less hopeful I am of a decent future for all of us.

I know the feeling mate.

[Hubble]

If you'd like to watch an excellent summary of 'what's really going on' right now Brights, I recommend Luke Rudkowski - he seems pretty on the money to me, sifting the BS from the fact, and looking at the agendas being played out behind the media smokescreens. Here he covers all the recent events concerning Trump, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Qatar blockade, Syria and more, and he does it all in a very succinct 10 minutes. He covers so-called conspiracy theories very well I think.

(Assuming people know about the Comey stuff in the US - massively trailed by the mainstream media as a huge take down of Trump that's turned out to be a complete damp squib)

[Tarbie]

If you'd like to watch an excellent summary of 'what's really going on' right now Brights, I recommend Luke Rudkowski - he seems pretty on the money to me, sifting the BS from the fact, and looking at the agendas being played out behind the media smokescreens. Here he covers all the recent events concerning Trump, Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Qatar blockade, Syria and more, and he does it all in a very succinct 10 minutes. He covers so-called conspiracy theories very well I think.

(Assuming people know about the Comey stuff in the US - massively trailed by the mainstream media as a huge take down of Trump that's turned out to be a complete damp squib)

That Qatar situation is the biggest loads of BS I've heard in a while Hubs. Not a chance was that anything to do with sponsoring terror.

[Hubble]

That Qatar situation is the biggest loads of BS I've heard in a while Hubs. Not a chance was that anything to do with sponsoring terror.

Exactly Tarbs. Did you watch the vid?

[Hove Ranger]

Your opinion yes, but I'd be interested to know your sources? How do we know it's not coming from parties out to discredit him? We all know he has plenty of opponents. The questioning from friends and family doesn't surprise me considering he comes from an orthodox Muslim background. I would also question the neocon links, considering his own politics is far from right-wing. He's in fact a Lib Dem in his politics and has even stood for them; and Quilliam is left-of-centre.

All that aside though, for argument's sake lets assume that all your claims are true, (and I didnt know any of that which is why I said 'I'm genuinely interested') - what about the actual message they're putting across?

This from its Wiki entry:

"Quilliam is a London-based left-of-center think tank that focuses on counter-extremism, specifically against Islamism, which it argues represents a desire to impose a given interpretation of Islam on society. Founded as The Quilliam Foundation, it lobbies government and public institutions for more nuanced policies regarding Islam and on the need for greater democracy in the Muslim world whilst empowering moderate Muslim voices.

According to one of its co-founders, Maajid Nawaz, "We wish to raise awareness around Islamism"; he also said, "I want to demonstrate how the Islamist ideology is incompatible with Islam. Secondly … develop a Western Islam that is at home in Britain and in Europe … reverse radicalisation by taking on their arguments and countering them."

The organisation opposes any Islamist ideology and champions freedom of expression. The critique of Islamist ideology by its founders, Maajid Nawaz, Rashad Zaman Ali and Ed Husain, is based, in part, on their personal experiences."

How many here would honestly oppose those aims and objectives in general?

They're an independent organisation which relies solely on private donations and grants in order to carry out its work.

Furthermore, I have to ask - who is the real enemy here? Who is the real fifth column in our midst? Someone like Maajid Nawaz who's not even a practicing Muslim and who devotes his life to combating and challenging Islamism, Jihadism and radicalisation in all its forms? Or is it the 23,000 Jihadist sympathasisers (according to official figures) who, as we speak, are freely walking the streets of Britain? I would suggest it's the latter and perhaps we'd be wise not to take our eye off the ball there.

The only reason this came up in the conversation is because I cited their work as an example of how the UK's current terrorism problems is not "almost completely" down to foreign policy, but also to do with Islamic extremism - something I think most of us agree on - and our consensus on that fact matters significantly more than the exact identity of some of Quilliam's donors, I would argue.

Stan you clearly like the bloke and that's fair enough, hence the lengthy reply.

Tbf after reading your response a 2nd time there are a few issues; You say he is a lib dem but it was pretty common knowledge he only represented lib dems after being turned down by labour and the tories. I remember reading interviews with Nick Clegg who said he regretted allowing him to run with lib dems as he felt Nawaz was more concerned with promoting himself and his brand rather than the lib dems. The neocon links are related to who the major contributors to Quilliam US are and further to this the complete 360 turn around on their stance on Israel which coincided with the creation of Quilliam US and the funding from across the pond. You say the identity of the funders/donors/contributors is less significant than their message, well i disagree, especially in the neoliberal capitalist society we live. Is the message/narrative a separate entity to the funding?

These reasons among others lead for me to say "Fark Majid Nawaz....." and I stand by it. I haven't suggested that he is the real enemy over the jihadis and I haven't suggested anyone take their eyes off the ball and focus on Nawaz. I stated a few things that I've previously come across that discredit Nawaz as an expert or public figure on this subject. He is making a career from being an ex-muslim and I suppose fair play to him but I won't be dancing to his tune