Westminster / Manchester / London Bridge / Parsons Green attacks

[Hubble]

Shocking if true!

It's true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/

[Stanley]

I learn today that Salman Abedi had been reported to the authorities no less than FIVE times but our security services resources had been too over-stretched to act. The buck stops with May on this one, for sure. Trouble is Corbyn is no better on this issue either. So much for a viable opposition party, even at election time.

[Tarbie]

I learn today that Salman Abedi had been reported to the authorities no less than FIVE times but our security services resources had been too over-stretched to act. The buck stops with May on this one, for sure. Trouble is Corbyn is no better on this issue either. So much for a viable opposition party, even at election time.

Agree 100%.

May is unelectable in my opinion. Under her stewardship this problem will only get worse. To hear that this attack could have been prevented is sickening and the buck stops with her.

Problem is Corbyn won't address the issue properly either. He understands the root of the problems in the Middle East and no doubt he won't back arms trade into the region like the Tories have, which will help. But he's too weak to in my opinion, and his policy on immigration is basically an open door.

[QPR71]

from the isis magazine dabiq. as isis have stated they would hate and fight us if there was no western militerism. no history of crusades. (approx 9 battles of the crusades after europe was occupied in spain italy greece etc. 800 battles in europe)
they would hate us and fight us because we are infidels and kafir.

Why we hate you

http://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

1. We hate you, first and foremost, because you
are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah –
whether you realize it or not – by making partners
for Him in worship, you blaspheme against Him,
claiming that He has a son,

2. We hate you because your secular, liberal societies
permit the very things that Allah has prohibited
while banning many of the things He has permitted,
(question. what are the things our societies ban, that ISIS regard as permitted?)

3. In the case of the atheist fringe, we hate you
and wage war against you because you disbelieve in
the existence of your Lord and Creator

4. We hate you for your
crimes against Islam and wage
war against you to punish you
for your transgressions against our religion. As long as
your subjects continue to mock our faith, insult the
prophets of Allah – including Noah, Abraham, Moses,
Jesus, and Muhammad  – burn the Quran, and
openly vilify the laws of the Shari’ah, we will continue
to retaliate, not with slogans and placards, but with
bullets and knives.

5. We hate you for your crimes against the Muslims;
your drones and fighter jets bomb, kill, and
maim our people around the world, and your puppets
in the usurped lands of the Muslims oppress, torture,
and wage war against anyone who calls to the truth.

6. We hate you for invading our lands and fight
you to repel you and drive you out. As long as there
is an inch of territory left for us to reclaim, jihad will
continue to be a personal obligation on every single
Muslim.

[QPR71]

when the muslim armies invaded zoathrastrian persia. the persians sent out their army and their general asked to negotiate with the muslim army general. the muslim refused, paraphrased he said.
"our prophet tells us we will fight you and if we lose, we will enter paradise, and if we win, we will be your masters, so we will fight you"

jihad is permanent and only subsides during periods when islam percieves it hasnt the strength, only to resume if opportunity allows. this is the doctrine of jihad. with the doctrine of hijrah added the only outcome is isolation or submission

ISIS leaders are PHD's in islamic studies. they are carrying out islamic doctrines correctly. the trouble with westerners is that they put their heads inside the heads of the jihadists and use logical explanations and reasons for what they do. the fact is they believe in their religion and its doctrines dictate their actions

[Tarbie]

when the muslim armies invaded zoathrastrian persia. the persians sent out their army and their general asked to negotiate with the muslim army general. the muslim refused, paraphrased he said.
"our prophet tells us we will fight you and if we lose, we will enter paradise, and if we win, we will be your masters, so we will fight you"

jihad is permanent and only subsides during periods when islam percieves it hasnt the strength, only to resume if opportunity allows. this is the doctrine of jihad. with the doctrine of hijrah added the only outcome is isolation or submission

ISIS leaders are PHD's in islamic studies. they are carrying out islamic doctrines correctly. the trouble with westerners is that they put their heads inside the heads of the jihadists and use logical explanations and reasons for what they do. the fact is they believe in their religion and its doctrines dictate their actions

Behave a bit mate. ISIS leaders aren't PHD's in anything. They are sick individuals who use Islam to justify atrocities.

Serious question, how many Muslims have you ever actually spoken to about their faith and their interpretation of the Quran?

[Stanley]

ISIS leaders aren't PHD's in anything.

You'd be surprised but actually they are. Yes of course they're sick, but these people are far from stupid. They are extreme theocrats, which makes their evil ideology on a par with Nazism (if not more so) because it is utterly uncompromising, as post 394 details.

[lymehoop]

. .. meanwhile ''youths'' threaten to blow up a bus in Paris (RT News)

[nanocopic]

Tbd how no one has took a vehicle down a road at a big sports match over here with crowds we get amazes me. Imagine someone doing this say outside the bridge.

Well at LR down SA road the police park their cars to stop this possibility. Park width ways across either side of the lamppost and crossing after the primary school.

[nanocopic]

. .. meanwhile ''youths'' threaten to blow up a bus in Paris (RT News)

Yeah no way in hell would I go anywhere near Paris at the moment, had to book a flight that went via Amsterdam instead of Paris for our summer hols this year as not worth the risk.

[Tarbie]

You'd be surprised but actually they are. Yes of course they're sick, but these people are far from stupid. They are extreme theocrats, which makes their evil ideology on a par with Nazism (if not more so) because it is utterly uncompromising, as post 394 details.

My problem is this assumption by many in the UK these days that this is uniform across all Muslims. That every Muslim interprets the Quran in this way and that this religion, who's followers run into the billions, is out to destroy our Western way of life.

It's so narrow minded and so far from the truth.

I've spent a 3rd of my life in the Muslim world. I have hundreds of Muslim friends and in my job, which requires me to constantly meet people, I have interacted with thousands of Muslims from across the world over the years. I can honestly say, I have never encountered anyone who believes what ISIS are doing is right or in any way justified.

I have one close friend from Syria, as nice a guy as your are ever likely to meet. He has seen his country leveled to the ground. Previously peaceful cities blown to pieces, friends and family killed, schools, hospitals, any last remnants of functioning society all gone and atrocities committed every day. Of course, this was not the fault of the West, although I believe we could have done a lot more to help, and our media could have done a lot more to highlight the plight of these people.

Despite everything that he has been through, this guy still has the decency to post a message of condolence on all forms of social media every time an attack happens in the West. No hatred, no anger, just solidarity. A lot in our country could learn from this guy in my opinion.

[Stanley]

Tarbie, I agree with all that and I share the frustration.

I imagine it must be difficult for you living abroad for so long to fully guage the public mood in the UK at the moment over all this.

Part of the problem as I see it is that we don't have enough of the moderate Muslims (who are of course the vast majority of them) coming out publicly to outright condemn this. The lack of this action unfortunately creates a negative perception and misunderstanding amongst non-muslims that many moderates are somehow silently turning a blind eye to the actions of the extremists, and in some cases even silently condoning it, even though they would never resort to such action themselves.

The other important point is that we STILL have mosques in this country which have preachers espousing fundamentalist Wahabist ideology, anti-semitism, racial bigotry, homophobia and misogyny - all under the dangerous banner of theocratic Islam. It's been happening in UK madrasas too for children, as the Channel 4 doc "undercover mosque" exposed, in which children were being physically abused and indoctrinated into this extremist Islamic ideology. This is all still going on here in the UK, so it's clearly a major contributing factor to the problem.

And here's something even more shocking for you: When that Channel 4 documentary came out, who do you think are the only ones the Police investigated and cautioned? The answer is Channel 4 news because of the risk that their program might cause offence to some Muslims and be seen as incitement and inflammatory. This is just one example of the insane PC culture we have had to tolerate here in recent times. Even the moderate muslims and other minorities find this PC culture completely outrageous and unbalanced.

[Kevin Mcleod]

Tommy Robinson arrested for reporting on grooming gangs outside court, and so nearly sent to prison for it. Where he would of near on certainly been murdered by muslims, like the man who left bacon on the steps of a mosque was. (that's been totally swept under the carpet, along with the westminister murderer has been and the manchester one will as well)
He went to Rochdale to interview the councillor who gave one of the main groomers a glowing court reference and his car was smashed up and he was chased out of the town, no arrests for that unfortunately. Surely that constitutes as hate crime doesnt it?

The police consoling the muslim communities and visiting mosques where they preach murder to the kuffar the day after the manchester murders, saying they will be with them and stamp down on hate crime. What hate crime, there isnt any. If there was, any perpetrator would be hung out to dry by the msm and would be in prison for life.

Katie Hopkins sacked by lbc for speaking out against the murderers but the opposition home secretary says white people playing divide and rule are the problem with Britain, and that all Brexit voters are racists but faces no recourse whatsoever.

Jon Gaunt unemployable


Ane Marie Waters also detained in a police station last night for absolutley nothing but having right leaning views.

From her twitter this morning
Imagine being so filled with hate that you believe those who disagree with you politically should go to prison. Imagine that.


The establishment are giving these people a free reign and anyone who doesnt like it and speaks out is dealt with.

[Tarbie]

Tarbie, I agree with all that and I share the frustration.

I imagine it must be difficult for you living abroad for so long to fully guage the public mood in the UK at the moment over all this.

Part of the problem as I see it is that we don't have enough of the moderate Muslims (who are of course the vast majority of them) coming out publicly to outright condemn this. The lack of this action unfortunately creates a negative perception and misunderstanding amongst non-muslims that many moderates are somehow silently turning a blind eye to the actions of the extremists, and in some cases even silently condoning it, even though they would never resort to such action themselves.

The other important point is that we STILL have mosques in this country which have preachers espousing fundamentalist Wahabist ideology, anti-semitism, racial bigotry, homophobia and misogyny - all under the dangerous banner of theocratic Islam. It's been happening in UK madrasas too for children, as the Channel 4 doc "undercover mosque" exposed, in which children were being physically abused and indoctrinated into this extremist Islamic ideology. This is all still going on here in the UK, so it's clearly a major contributing factor to the problem.

And here's something even more shocking for you: When that Channel 4 documentary came out, who do you think are the only ones the Police investigated and cautioned? The answer is Channel 4 news because of the risk that their program might cause offence to some Muslims and be seen as incitement and inflammatory. This is just one example of the insane PC culture we have had to tolerate here in recent times. Even the moderate muslims and other minorities find this PC culture completely outrageous and unbalanced.

I agree with all of this too.

We need to do more to address those that incite hatred and encourage radical views in the UK. We also need to stop tip-toing around the issue for fear of upsetting the Muslim population.

If people within our country are planning to hurt and kill innocent people they must be taken off the streets. If mosques or any other institutions are harbouring these people, then they must be shut down.

[Bigdave]

If mosques or any other institutions are harbouring these people, then they must be shut down.

Totally agree tarbs but you'd then get mass protests by not only muslims but also the left who would brand it racist.

Where were all these protesters when Anjem choudry and his like were preaching hate on the streets of Britain? No bloody where that's where