Westminster / Manchester / London Bridge / Parsons Green attacks

[Hubble]

hubble is your tag postmodernist ironic?

Yes.

[Hubble]

There's something there that doesn't add up there, Hubble. ISIS have apparently now claimed responsibility for the attack, so presumably this nail bomber was a member of ISIS. We now know he was a mule operating within a larger network. So if the Saudis are supporting ISIS why would the Conservatives be such strong allies with them, knowing that ISIS are behind all these attacks across Europe? Corbyn's Labour are the complete opposite - they want to cut ties with the Saudis and stop all arms sales to them. So it makes no sense that we're being attacked by ISIS on our soil, whilst a Tory government is in power. Unless you think Theresa places our arms dealings with the Saudis as more important than her responsibilities of protecting her own citizens from terrorist attacks? As for the timing of it with the election I now fail to see how this attack could improve her diminishing position in the polls, when if anything I'd have thought it would boost Corbyn's. I realise that he's more lax over immigration but he is hardline over ending arms trades to the Saudis.

That's a bit convoluted Stan. First up, how can you take anything 'ISIS' say seriously? They'll claim anything is to do with them if it suits them. And how do you hear about ISIS? Where does that info come from? Do we know the real source? Smoke and mirrors mate.

Why do the UK govt. support the Saudis - no matter what - along with the US? It's all about ensuring the petrodollar stays as the world's reserve currency. Once Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard in the 70s, the dollar became a fiat currency. They immediately did a deal with the Saudis nd the Saud family that if they agreed to trade oil in dollars, the US would back them to the hilt militarily. The only thing that is propping the dollar up is the fact that it retains its status as the petrodollar. This explains the unstinting support for the Saudis from the US and UK who are their main allies. Because Iran is such a big oil producer, it therefore remains a constant threat to the status of the petrodollar. That is why there is constant sabre rattling and proxy wars between Iran and her allies and the US and the Saudis and their allies. Syria is aligned with Iran for this reason, as is Russia. Make no mistake, this is the key factor here.

Here's an excellent video I encourage you to watch that explains this and why Trump is still continuing this 'deep state' plan:

Yes, I note you 'now fail to see how this would help May' - but you could see it at the time. You understood the logic behind it, but it is flawed logic. In fact I think - if we are assuming there is some form of deep state involvement here - probably to do with the Saudis - then of course, they may well have made a big mistake and miscalculated. Let's not forget the establishment got Brexit completely wrong and they threw everything they could at the remain vote. They also got Trump completely wrong. Looks like 'they' could be wrong here too.

Yes, I agree with 71 that of course there is a parallel agenda with fundamentalist Islam and the whole jihad thing. But they are inextricably intertwined now. Religious monomania is allied with the agendas of individuals like the Saud family and State agendas that seek to divide, rule and dominate. There are always multiple factors and forces involved. That's one reason why it's so hard to discern the true picture. But at least I think you agree that we should take anything we read in the mainstream media with a pinch of salt, at best?

Looking at your first question again, why would our government support the Saudis knowing they support ISIS - well I've answered it from one angle, but here's another - the fact is they DO know the Saudis support ISIS - the fact is that's out there as a proven fact - yet they do still support the Saudis. We know these two thing are facts. Just like the West still supports Erdogan and Turkey, and Turkey are still members of NATO, when they know Turkey has been buying oil from ISIS and giving ISIS convoys safe passage, AND they have also been continually bombing the Kurds who have been fighting against ISIS. They know all this, yet they still support them. This is only hard to understand if you thing there are moral values involved. Once you realise there aren't, that all of this is totally immoral, it's easier to understand.

I hope that answers your question mate.

[Hubble]

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5QTXhlbLlPs

He asks why? Why are these people, who are always 'known to the authorities' allowed to remain here and act with impunity? Problem, reaction, solution: that's one reason why. Works every time.

The insane, huge cuts to the police budget that May made as Home Secretary, that's another reason why. She has ####ed up big time and now we're reaping the whirlwind.

Why has the Islamic fundamentalist agenda and Sharia law been allowed to flourish here? Reason number 1 is part of it. I hate to say it, but governments and their overlords like it when populations are divided against each other. It suits their agenda. Another reason is that they have no interest in the ordinary people. They want huge immigration to ensure they keep the economy growing. Therefore they have to suppress anything that might upset this plan.

[James1979]

He asks why? Why are these people, who are always 'known to the authorities' allowed to remain here and act with impunity? Problem, reaction, solution: that's one reason why. Works every time.

The insane, huge cuts to the police budget that May made as Home Secretary, that's another reason why. She has ####ed up big time and now we're reaping the whirlwind.

Why has the Islamic fundamentalist agenda and Sharia law been allowed to flourish here? Reason number 1 is part of it. I hate to say it, but governments and their overlords like it when populations are divided against each other. It suits their agenda. Another reason is that they have no interest in the ordinary people. They want huge immigration to ensure they keep the economy growing. Therefore they have to suppress anything that might upset this plan.

They've cut police officer numbers but have increased security spending by 20%. Combating terrorism is more than just police numbers.

[Hubble]

They've cut police officer numbers but have increased security spending by 20%. Combating terrorism is more than just police numbers.

Where did you get that figure from James? Source please. And what has this purported 20% increase been spent on?

Question is, do you think decimating the police force is good policy? Do you think it has helped? You hardly ever see police on the beat these days. A local community police presence is such an important thing you can't calculate its effect in numbers. Communities have been (deliberately) destroyed anyway by years of Thatcherite policies, continued by Blair, Brown, Cameron etc. We need to rebuild trust between communities and the police. Things have gone from bad to worse under May as Home Secretary.

Yes, combating terrorism is more than police numbers. It's about creating strong communities, where alienation and radicalisation don't happen. It's about not bombing the #### out of foreign countries.

But whatever that so-called 20% increase was spent on, it hasn't done much good, has it?

[Hubble]

Is this what you call increasing security?

"Tories cut security support for outdated NHS computers a year ago despite warnings of vulnerability to hackers"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tories-cut-security-support-outdated-10413160

That didn't work out well.

[James1979]

Where did you get that figure from James? Source please. And what has this purported 20% increase been spent on?

Question is, do you think decimating the police force is good policy? Do you think it has helped? You hardly ever see police on the beat these days. A local community police presence is such an important thing you can't calculate its effect in numbers. Communities have been (deliberately) destroyed anyway by years of Thatcherite policies, continued by Blair, Brown, Cameron etc. We need to rebuild trust between communities and the police. Things have gone from bad to worse under May as Home Secretary.

Yes, combating terrorism is more than police numbers. It's about creating strong communities, where alienation and radicalisation don't happen. It's about not bombing the #### out of foreign countries.

But whatever that so-called 20% increase was spent on, it hasn't done much good, has it?

Decimating? Shouldn't you be out campaigning for Labour? I've just been listening to so-Called experts talking about prevent and pursue policies.

Now you're saying our foreign policy is to blame? Again, whilst there may be an element to this, most seem to be saying it's a dislike of our western life and our inaction in certain areas that has caused this. You're lAbour and you're trying to spin it your way.

[Jeems]

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...uslim-ban.html

This could go on all day mate!

An appeal court blocked the amended travel ban, but regardless of a few journalists getting angry, there has been no official condemnation from Muslim majoirty country's that were not part of the ban. All a moot point now though!

[James1979]

Just on police numbers. Peak since 2003 was 2009. It has dropped since 2009 by 20,000 but is in line with 2003 figure.

[Hubble]

Decimating? Shouldn't you be out campaigning for Labour? I've just been listening to so-Called experts talking about prevent and pursue policies.

Now you're saying our foreign policy is to blame? Again, whilst there may be an element to this, most seem to be saying it's a dislike of our western life and our inaction in certain areas that has caused this. You're lAbour and you're trying to spin it your way.

I'm not spinning it mate, that's simply the reality. And I'm not Labour, I'm independent. I simply want what I think is best for our country and it's not the Tories, IMHO.

And you haven't provided your source for the figure you quoted, by the way.

[James1979]

I'm not spinning it mate, that's simply the reality. And I'm not Labour, I'm independent. I simply want what I think is best for our country and it's not the Tories, IMHO.

And you haven't provided your source for the figure you quoted, by the way.

Ben Wallace on Today programme.

Well I thought you were Labour and you were making me think about voting Tory!

[Hubble]

Ben Wallace on Today programme.

Well I thought you were Labour and you were making me think about voting Tory!

Gawd, I hope not mate!

Ben Wallace is the Tory security minister. Not the most reliable of sources, I'd like to see some actual evidence!

[Tarbie]

Decimating? Shouldn't you be out campaigning for Labour? I've just been listening to so-Called experts talking about prevent and pursue policies.

Now you're saying our foreign policy is to blame? Again, whilst there may be an element to this, most seem to be saying it's a dislike of our western life and our inaction in certain areas that has caused this. You're lAbour and you're trying to spin it your way.

Not just an element of truth, foreign policy of the UK and US governments is all you need to examine to understand war in the Middle East and Islamic terrorism. And I'm not just talking post 9/11.

Go back to the formation of an Israeli state on land stolen from the Palestinians. That was us and the US that brokered that one. Then we have decades of greedy, American oil barons raping the region of it's natural resources, obviously making certain pockets of the region very rich, but by contrast, a lot of the region still lives in abject poverty. Then we have the constant US backing of the Israeli state, both financially, and in terms of supply of weapons. There is literally a genocide of the Palestinian people going on in plain sight and it's sponsored by the US.

Oh, and then we have the mother of all clusterf*cks, the response from the US to 9/11, which of course we were right in there with them on. And this one was the straw that broke the camels back. Not so much going into Iraq, a good percentage of the Iraqi people wanted the West to liberate them from Saddam Hussein. The problem is, this was a country that was being ruled under an iron fist for a reason. In Iraq you have the Shi'ite majority, then you have the Sunni's and the Kurds, then you have Turkomans, Assyrians, Armenians and God knows how many other religious factions, and they all like a fight, always have. We went in there thinking we could drop a few bombs, kill Saddam, wave a few US and UK flags and appoint a Western friendly leader and everything would be cool. So incredibly naive it's untrue and the root of everything we are seeing today. We've left a huge vacuum in The Middle East which ISIS have filled, and we've left hundreds of thousands of widows, orphans and homeless people who blame the West and are exactly the fodder that ISIS need to wage this war!

[Kevin Mcleod]

Former home secretary on isis and corbyn.

I haven’t taken Jeremy Corbyn’s advice on security matters for some decades now - former Home Secretary Charles Clarke tells Newsnight https://t.co/5OaEaX8WVU

[James1979]

Not just an element of truth, foreign policy of the UK and US governments is all you need to examine to understand war in the Middle East and Islamic terrorism. And I'm not just talking post 9/11.

Go back to the formation of an Israeli state on land stolen from the Palestinians. That was us and the US that brokered that one. Then we have decades of greedy, American oil barons raping the region of it's natural resources, obviously making certain pockets of the region very rich, but by contrast, a lot of the region still lives in abject poverty. Then we have the constant US backing of the Israeli state, both financially, and in terms of supply of weapons. There is literally a genocide of the Palestinian people going on in plain sight and it's sponsored by the US.

Oh, and then we have the mother of all clusterf*cks, the response from the US to 9/11, which of course we were right in there with them on. And this one was the straw that broke the camels back. Not so much going into Iraq, a good percentage of the Iraqi people wanted the West to liberate them from Saddam Hussein. The problem is, this was a country that was being ruled under an iron fist for a reason. In Iraq you have the Shi'ite majority, then you have the Sunni's and the Kurds, then you have Turkomans, Assyrians, Armenians and God knows how many other religious factions, and they all like a fight, always have. We went in there thinking we could drop a few bombs, kill Saddam, wave a few US and UK flags and appoint a Western friendly leader and everything would be cool. So incredibly naive it's untrue and the root of everything we are seeing today. We've left a huge vacuum in The Middle East which ISIS have filled, and we've left hundreds of thousands of widows, orphans and homeless people who blame the West and are exactly the fodder that ISIS need to wage this war!

ISIS themselves say that their hatred for us is more than just because of our foreign policy.