Trump the anti vaccine idiot

[TimPR78]

One subject matter that really boils my p!ss is the whole anti vaccine movement. I would just like to state that to this date there has been no, that's right zero, peer tested studies that has associated vaccines and causing autism, so this movement has NO evidence whatsoever. I will refer to one study carried out by Andrew Wakefield in 98 which was published in the lancet, why not call him doctor Wakefield? Because he was disbarred after the study was discredited for falsifying evidence, oh and it was found that Wakefield was working for a team crafting a $56 million lawsuit against the MMR vaccine manufacturers.

So why bring it up now? F^cking Trump has appointed Robert F Kennedy Jnr (a celebrated anti vaccine campaigner) to chair a committee on the safety and integrity of vaccines.... How is this gargantuan turd allowed to get away with this???

Yes there are bigger issues with Trump but this is a bit of a personal axe to grind!

[James1979]

I think in Oz it's compulsory to have vaccinations and should be the case here. No debate, just have them and move on.

[Tarbie]

My sister is one of those ant-vaccine lot and it drives me bonkers. My little nieces are wandering at risk for diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, polio, measles, mumps, rubella and god knows what else. And it's all based on zero scientific fact. I don't get how people think it's ok to go against decades of medical research because of hearsay. If every person out there adopted the same mentality we'd have epidemics on our hands!

[Hubble]

I think in Oz it's compulsory to have vaccinations and should be the case here. No debate, just have them and move on.

I don't agree. People should - and do -have the right to chose what goes into their bodies. To enforce it, is wrong, IMO. And I think people are right to be concerned about vaccines. I had a strong reaction to measles vaccination when I was a kid, leading to marks on my teeth and an auto-immune reaction that possibly later developed into a full-blown immune disorder. Most vaccines contain substances like aluminium (before that, mercury), that act as 'adjuvants' to increase the immune reaction, but although they are considered 'safe', it's not 100% known how they interfere with the human body, its nervous system, brain and so on. Of course, one would tend to say these are 'acceptable risks' given that overall the reduction in common diseases is beneficial to society as a whole. But that depends on whether you have a reaction to the vaccine or not. Therefore I think we have a right to chose. I believe more study is needed to make vaccines entirely (if possible) risk free, before we can say unequivocally that they're safe. Furthermore, I do not trust governments and their agencies and am not in favour of them enforcing anything on me or anyone else.

[Tarbie]

I don't agree. People should - and do -have the right to chose what goes into their bodies. To enforce it, is wrong, IMO. And I think people are right to be concerned about vaccines. I had a strong reaction to measles vaccination when I was a kid, leading to marks on my teeth and an auto-immune reaction that possibly later developed into a full-blown immune disorder. Most vaccines contain substances like aluminium (before that, mercury), that act as 'adjuvants' to increase the immune reaction, but although they are considered 'safe', it's not 100% known how they interfere with the human body, its nervous system, brain and so on. Of course, one would tend to say these are 'acceptable risks' given that overall the reduction in common diseases is beneficial to society as a whole. But that depends on whether you have a reaction to the vaccine or not. Therefore I think we have a right to chose. I believe more study is needed to make vaccines entirely (if possible) risk free, before we can say unequivocally that they're safe. Furthermore, I do not trust governments and their agencies and am not in favour of them enforcing anything on me or anyone else.

I agree on not trusting governments.

I also agree on the fact that vaccination is not 100% without complications. Sorry to hear you are one of the unlucky ones who had a nasty reaction. But there is definitely no decent research to back up the link to Autism, it really is all hearsay. Also, what is the other alternative to vaccination? Epidemics that cripple the health system and kill the frail and the weak I'd assume!

[Hubble]

I agree on not trusting governments.

I also agree on the fact that vaccination is not 100% without complications. Sorry to hear you are one of the unlucky ones who had a nasty reaction. But there is definitely no decent research to back up the link to Autism, it really is all hearsay. Also, what is the other alternative to vaccination? Epidemics that cripple the health system and kill the frail and the weak I'd assume!

The Spartan way!

;-)

[James1979]

I don't agree. People should - and do -have the right to chose what goes into their bodies. To enforce it, is wrong, IMO. And I think people are right to be concerned about vaccines. I had a strong reaction to measles vaccination when I was a kid, leading to marks on my teeth and an auto-immune reaction that possibly later developed into a full-blown immune disorder. Most vaccines contain substances like aluminium (before that, mercury), that act as 'adjuvants' to increase the immune reaction, but although they are considered 'safe', it's not 100% known how they interfere with the human body, its nervous system, brain and so on. Of course, one would tend to say these are 'acceptable risks' given that overall the reduction in common diseases is beneficial to society as a whole. But that depends on whether you have a reaction to the vaccine or not. Therefore I think we have a right to chose. I believe more study is needed to make vaccines entirely (if possible) risk free, before we can say unequivocally that they're safe. Furthermore, I do not trust governments and their agencies and am not in favour of them enforcing anything on me or anyone else.

But if you make it optional then it puts everyone at risk not just those who decide not to have it.

[TimPR78]

Hubble, found your post a really interesting read and possibly one of the most well informed I have seen from someone skeptical of vaccines, and whilst you are right we don't know the full effects of adjuvants the issue I do have with that is that the levels used were trace amounts and for instance anyone who eats tuna will have a larger intake of mercury. Found the below link quite an interesting read.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/

I also agree that we have to question the government and the vaccine producing companies as without this process corruption will no doubt happen. However for Trump to put in a well established anti vaccine campaigner is just beyond bat sh!t crazy, part of the scientific method is to review data objectively, I just don't think he has the capability to do that

[Hubble]

Yes Tim, but when it comes to politics I've learnt to no longer despair at their shenanigans - after all Obama appointed a Monsanto VP as head of the FDA and Goldman Sachs as financial advisers, he was riddled with insiders and just as bad if not worse than Trump, of whom we've yet to see what he'll actually do... and of course, Obama is officially the most warmongering president in history, presiding over 8 years of continuous war, bombing more countries simultaneously (7) than any other US president.... and at the same time presiding over the largest prison population in history, both in terms of numbers and proportion of the population, with more black men in prison than were ever slaves... some legacy.....

(But I do take your points)

[TimPR78]

Yes Tim, but when it comes to politics I've learnt to no longer despair at their shenanigans - after all Obama appointed a Monsanto VP as head of the FDA and Goldman Sachs as financial advisers, he was riddled with insiders and just as bad if not worse than Trump, of whom we've yet to see what he'll actually do... and of course, Obama is officially the most warmongering president in history, presiding over 8 years of continuous war, bombing more countries simultaneously (7) than any other US president.... and at the same time presiding over the largest prison population in history, both in terms of numbers and proportion of the population, with more black men in prison than were ever slaves... some legacy.....

(But I do take your points)

And I certainly take on board what you've said it's a new experience for me to have someone who has a different viewpoint on this and actually puts interesting and valid points across sadly the full blown anti vaccine lot just talk a lot of nonsense. I will bow down to your knowledge on Obama's regime as it's not something I feel educated well enough to comment upon, although can't remember the last President who wasn't involved in a conflict of some kind it does seem to be a prerequisite of the job!

[Hubble]

And I certainly take on board what you've said it's a new experience for me to have someone who has a different viewpoint on this and actually puts interesting and valid points across sadly the full blown anti vaccine lot just talk a lot of nonsense. I will bow down to your knowledge on Obama's regime as it's not something I feel educated well enough to comment upon, although can't remember the last President who wasn't involved in a conflict of some kind it does seem to be a prerequisite of the job!

Thanks Tim, I do my best to take a rational and informed approach to everything, with an added dose of healthy skepticism! I am, however, not afraid of swimming the seas of alternative views and theories, and testing them through direct experience (or dialectic), if possible.

You're right the US has nearly always been mired in international conflict of some sort or other, but never to the extent, continuously, that Obama has.... he also wins hands down on arms sales against the rest of the world put together. And they gave him the Nobel peace prize...

[nanocopic]

As an autistic guy who had vaccines, I without a doubt do not blame them. If you look at my dad you can clearly see the genetic similarities that caused my autism. My daughter is having her last lot of jabs in a couple of weeks and as much as it sucks to see, they need it, especially with more and more not having them, I want to take every effort to protect her from getting serious illnesses.

[TimPR78]

As an autistic guy who had vaccines, I without a doubt do not blame them. If you look at my dad you can clearly see the genetic similarities that caused my autism. My daughter is having her last lot of jabs in a couple of weeks and as much as it sucks to see, they need it, especially with more and more not having them, I want to take every effort to protect her from getting serious illnesses.

Thanks for the post, I have found this to be the same opinion as EVERYONE I know, who is, or has family members with autism and whilst Hubble is right to always question those in positions of power it's sad that it is the people with less well informed opinions (not Hubble obviously ) that seem to shout the loudest, confuse the public and confuse the issues that actually need addressing. Yet Trump has put at the head of such a committee someone who clearly has a ridiculous bias on the subject matter.

[Stanley]

Tricky one and I can see both sides of the argument but a libertarian will always ask what right do governments have to enforce the mandatory injection of substances into our children's bodies? Is it not the responsibilty of parents to educate themselves on the matter in the first instance? Governments can of course be involved (not always exclusively) in these education programs too, but shouldn't their role end there? #ThinEndOfTheWedge #NannyState

[James1979]

Tricky one and I can see both sides of the argument but a libertarian will always ask what right do governments have to enforce the mandatory injection of substances into our children's bodies? Is it not the responsibilty of parents to educate themselves on the matter in the first instance? Governments can of course be involved (not always exclusively) in these education programs too, but shouldn't their role end there? #ThinEndOfTheWedge #NannyState

Not when it puts other people at risk.