Europe. In or out?

[Johnnykc]

They will take us out. However, I'm not sure it will actually be that different to being in, if you see what I mean. Reckon we'll sign up to a lot of things we are currently in eg freedom of movement etc.

Agree

[Olly]

In terms of the vote the lies of the Leave campaign came out very soon after the vote. The £350m to the NHS, the likely outcome on immigration being minimal as is the impact on sovereignty in real terms. Add to that it has become clear the main players (Johnson, Farage, Gove and Leasdom) were in it for their own advancement and you have to question if they had any commitment to the 'cause.' Were there another vote I suspect the result would be very different. Should have been left for Parliament to make an informed decision. That's what they are paid to do. Putting it to a public vote on such a complex issue was plain daft.

Not sure anyone said all of the £350m was going to the NHS? We all accept immigration, but not people coming here with no jobs to go to.

[Stanley]

No, Stanley. The unelected stuff, for example, is pure nonsense. The EU commission investigates and makes recommendations on policy. Those policies are then VOTED in or out not by the commission but by the European parliament - the ELECTED MEP's (elected from the party we elected in the country). It is a fact that policies are not voted in without the agreement of the 'big 3' (Germany, France and the UK). So those EU rules are effectively agreed to by OUR elected politicians. The whole unelected propoganda is a charade. Furthermore - EU legislation counts only for around 13% our laws in the UK !!

It has grown to that 13% and the plan was always for that to increase further...drip drip... And it's unelected in that we as a country never voted to be ruled by them in the first place. We only voted for trade agreements, then got hoodwinked. Everything else has been forced upon us undemocratically by "this foundering, corrupt, banker/German controlled club" as Hubble accurately describes it. Also, why have they still not balanced their accounts for the last 20 years? I've still never heard a plausible explanation for that one.

[brightonr]

Not sure anyone said all of the £350m was going to the NHS? We all accept immigration, but not people coming here with no jobs to go to.

You are correct, they didn't.

The £350m was what we pay each week. It was made perfectly clear that we get a large proportion of that back, although there was still a healthy deficit to play with. Furthermore, nobody ever said it would ALL go to the NHS. Anyone who thought so would be extremely naive at best, but probably just ill informed and gullible.

And this is one of the "lies' that apparently the Leave campaign used to deceive the British public. Utter nonsense. All this complaining and whingeing is indicative of how spineless and wet a large portion of our population has become. They are
very much a minority fortunately. I'd like to think that the majority of Remain voters are like Hubble, who articulated his reasons very well, accepted the result, saw the positives in leaving and will adapt to ensure that the vote wasn't a waste of time.

Let's face it, those calling for a second referendum have now got the war criminal on their side, FFS.

[brightonr]

Stanley, really what on earth are you on about. So many inaccuracies in that statement chap it's not even true. You sucked up the leave propaganda hook, line and sinker :/

You didn't suck up the Remain propaganda then?

The undisputed FACT is that the intention of the founders was a Federal Europe. The lies and misleading of people started when we were duped into signing up for what was then referred to as the Common Market, which appears to have done a good job of disguising the real aims and led us to the mess we have now.

[brightonr]

Oh, going off topic slightly but wanted to finally put to bed the myth that ties in the immigration argument to racism.

Imagine the scenario. It's a few years ago and we hadn't had calls for referendums from any of the member states.

The Germans go to the EU with a worry of theirs. They are concerned that allowing totally uncontrolled immigration is having the obvious effect on their public services. They have realised that it is almost impossible to plan their health service, their housing, their schools, their welfare requirements etc., effectively, as they simply have no idea as to how many people will be living there. They suggest that numbers need to be controlled in order for them to ensure that the population can all be housed, educated and their health is looked after to an acceptable standard. That they are concerned that the standard of living that the Germans have attained until now will need to suffer and be set back years unless at least some control can be implemented.

Would the rest of Europe claim the Germans are racists? Nope, of course not.

Would the Germans be ashamed of their country for even suggesting such a thing? I doubt it.

Furthermore, would the EU have completely dismissed out of hand the genuine concern of one of the major players in the union as they did with the UK? I very much doubt it.

[Ramsey is god]

You are correct, they didn't.

The £350m was what we pay each week. It was made perfectly clear that we get a large proportion of that back, although there was still a healthy deficit to play with. Furthermore, nobody ever said it would ALL go to the NHS. Anyone who thought so would be extremely naive at best, but probably just ill informed and gullible.

And this is one of the "lies' that apparently the Leave campaign used to deceive the British public. Utter nonsense. All this complaining and whingeing is indicative of how spineless and wet a large portion of our population has become. They are
very much a minority fortunately. I'd like to think that the majority of Remain voters are like Hubble, who articulated his reasons very well, accepted the result, saw the positives in leaving and will adapt to ensure that the vote wasn't a waste of time.

Let's face it, those calling for a second referendum have now got the war criminal on their side, FFS.

I dont disagree with that, but it doesn't make it right. Farage deceived a lot of people with that figure and promising it could be used on other things, such as the NHS.

Still baffles me how politicians can promise or indicate things and go back on them without any retribution (this goes for in and out campaigners).

Also was it not 49%-51% not exactly "very much a minority".

I do agree with your comments on those who are demanding a revote. Ridiculous and out of principle of democracy, i would either vote out or not vote at all.

Either way, stuck with it now, just need someone to pull their finger out, jump head first into it and see us through the negotiations.

[brightonr]

Also was it not 49%-51% not exactly "very much a minority".

Think you may have slightly misunderstood. I was referring to the Remain voters who are still whining on, not their general level of support.

[jmelanie]

Does that mean his German wife who he employed as no English person could do the job, his words not mine, get's send back?

Of course not, any Foreign national (whatever their nationality) who marries somebody with a British passport, is entitled to stay in the United Kingdom. That has been the case since the year dot and is unlikely to change now. At one time (I believe until the 50s) the person with the British passport had to be male, but that changed.

[jmelanie]

"Brexit: ‘Everything will be on the table’ during negotiations, says French minister
Freedom of movement may no longer be prerequisite for access to single market"

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-freedom-of-movement-single-market-michel-sapin-eu-referendum-a7110491.html

French businesses have indicated that they want to continue trading with Britain and are putting pressure on the French government. The main problem with refugees is that they want to come to the United Kingdom, not stay in France. If there is no freedom of movement they will probably try to go to places like Germany and the problems with refugees in Calais will disappear. I am sure that even though we might lose a few bank employees (and dozens of bank employees are actually from France) London will stay remain as the financial capital of Europe as it is at least four times the size of any other place. Paris tried to become the financial capital after we refused to change to the Euro but quickly gave up. In fact more banks moved to London after our refusal to use the Euro.

[Ramsey is god]

Think you may have slightly misunderstood. I was referring to the Remain voters who are still whining on, not their general level of support.

ah fair enough and yes it is. noticed it is mostly the younger generation complaining, when apparently only 40% of them voted....

[gaza09]

No, Stanley. The unelected stuff, for example, is pure nonsense. The EU commission investigates and makes recommendations on policy. Those policies are then VOTED in or out not by the commission but by the European parliament - the ELECTED MEP's (elected from the party we elected in the country). It is a fact that policies are not voted in without the agreement of the 'big 3' (Germany, France and the UK). So those EU rules are effectively agreed to by OUR elected politicians. The whole unelected propoganda is a charade. Furthermore - EU legislation counts only for around 13% our laws in the UK !!

The only body in the EU with powers to legislate law is the unelected European Commission, the European Parliament is similar to our House of Lords which is just a reviewing chamber, and has now power to legislate law.

You are also wrong to suggest EU legislation only accounts for 13% of our law as that is only taking into account EU directives that need UK parliament to pass it as UK law.

If you also count EU regulations which apply automatically in all EU member countries—so all EU regulations can be said to be part of UK law the number rises to over 60%

So maybe it's not Stanley who's fallen for propaganda but you, I would also suggest you should have a grasp on the facts before talking down to someone so dismissively.

[gaza09]

I dont disagree with that, but it doesn't make it right. Farage deceived a lot of people with that figure and promising it could be used on other things, such as the NHS.

Still baffles me how politicians can promise or indicate things and go back on them without any retribution (this goes for in and out campaigners).

Also was it not 49%-51% not exactly "very much a minority".

I do agree with your comments on those who are demanding a revote. Ridiculous and out of principle of democracy, i would either vote out or not vote at all.

Either way, stuck with it now, just need someone to pull their finger out, jump head first into it and see us through the negotiations.

Nigel Farage never mentioned that figure, it was the offical campaign group "vote leave" who had that figure on their bus, and Farage was not part of vote leave.

Also the result was 52-48

[Kevin Mcleod]

Extraordinary. Schäuble admits he only threatened to exclude us from the market because George Osborne asked him to. https://t.co/bzbUlX1Tww

[Ramsey is god]

Nigel Farage never mentioned that figure, it was the offical campaign group "vote leave" who had that figure on their bus, and Farage was not part of vote leave.

Also the result was 52-48

what a wan*er