Europe. In or out?

[Hubble]

What would actually happen if we voted to leave? This is an interesting article on the actual realities of a Brexit vote, how long things might take, what might happen next. It seems fairly impartial to me, so worth a read whether you're for remain or leave: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...o-leave-the-eu

[Itsonlyagame]

But with the greatest respects mate it was an utterly pointless post (unlike several of your other ones) - if you are going to rely on expert opinion, the overwhelming majority of it is for us staying in. You are better off if you are a Brexiteer arguing the case of the crazy conspiracy - it is all a plot of "Europe", the banks, socialists/ liberals/ Cameron/ black people/ Romanians, who are apparently hell bent on destroying Britain. That's what gets the crowd going. Its b*llocks, but it seems to work with about 40/ 45 per cent of those people likely to vote.

With all due respect to you too, i get the impression your getting riled up.
My point about the opinions on the effects on the economy was this. For every economist who says we'll suffer, another says we won't. Interestingly a lot of the remain campaigns predictions are short term. I don't think anybody disagrees that it might be a rocky road during during the period of adjustment. It's what happens after that that matters.
We could do tit-for-tat exchanges of links to articles regarding the predicted economic outcome and mine would also be from very well respected economists. We could also link to newspaper articles, again contradicting each other. But where would that get us ? I think the saying is "put 10 economists in a room together and you'll get 11 different perspectives" (they will all have different opinions and one will keep changing his mind) That's why I agreed with Jmelanie, it will probably come down to personalities. Who most people trust as an individual.
You ask whether I'm in a well paid secure job but I've been vehemently defending the rights of people in low paid jobs.
You'revthe one whose saying its market forces, they either lump it or learn something more skilled. That migrants often work harder for less money. Do you not realise how insulting that sounds ?
I've obviously re-read through our posts and one of the many things I've noticed is that my posts might paint a picture of me as someone whose anti immigrant. If they do that's my fault. I'm not against anybody wanting to improve their lives. I would do exactly the same. Funnily enough I tried to emigrate to Australia in my younger years but couldn't get a visa !
One of the main points I've tried to put across is that open borders are unfair. As another poster said, it's not even free movement of labour, it's free movement of people. Keep our borders open to people who have the necessary skills and attributes to live and work here, of which there are many, inside and outside the EU. It's basic common sense surely, or am I missing something. Using the American dream is not a fair comparison, in fact the similarities between what happened then and what's happening now are so far apart i could turn it around and use it to back up my own argument.

Anyway, I think the long and short of it is neither of us are going to be swayed by the others points in terms of voting. I don't agree with your opinion but I respect it and hopefully you feel the same.
For what it's worth I honestly can't see us voting to leave so we'll probably never know what might have been.
In terms of your reference to the article in la tribune, I agree, if we leave, some of our European "partners" will try to screw us over but the same will apply if we stay. The fact that we've got to this point will have got their backs up and let's face it, some of them didn't hold us in very high regard anyway.

[jmelanie]

What would actually happen if we voted to leave? This is an interesting article on the actual realities of a Brexit vote, how long things might take, what might happen next. It seems fairly impartial to me, so worth a read whether you're for remain or leave: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...o-leave-the-eu

I have read the article with interest. However I am not sure I believe the first part of the article that Cameron and Osborne will resign. This would require a vote of no confidence which I am not sure would happen. I think this could change the rest of the article. Cameron is leaving in 2020 in any case and I don't think this will change.

[cross it Dave]

that pretty much sums up why we shouldn't be in this Union. Threats, scaremongering and doom and gloom awaits because we'd the temerity of contemplating leaving

I could not agree more, and so do 64% of WATRB's.

Vote out

[Olly]

Do people really believe 'dodgy dave'?

[cross it Dave]

Do people really believe 'dodgy dave'?

I think like many, that he is a secret Brexiter, he has done such a bad job it seems plausible.

vote out

[Olly]

Now generally 3's across the board mate

Was 1/7 (in) and 4/1 (out) two days ago, now 2/7 and 5/2.

Won't be long before 'no more boom and bust' Brown will be trundling around, telling us Scotland will leave the UK if we vote out. When Trump comes over, tell him he has our permission to rebuild Hadrian's Wall, using the Mexican labour from the Mexico Wall.

[jmelanie]

Was 1/7 (in) and 4/1 (out) two days ago, now 2/7 and 5/2.

Won't be long before 'no more boom and bust' Brown will be trundling around, telling us Scotland will leave the UK if we vote out. When Trump comes over, tell him he has our permission to rebuild Hadrian's Wall, using the Mexican labour from the Mexico Wall.

I read the Canadians are building a wall to stop the Americans coming over but it won't need to be more than 3 foot tall because most Americans are too fat to jump over anything higher than that.

[Olly]

[jmelanie]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/31/uk-voters-leaning-towards-brexit-guardian-poll-reveals

I think the worst result will be (and possibly the most likely one) is that it will be so close that both sides can claim victory and that really won't resolve the problem. I am not sure there will be a large turnout not because people don't care but because a lot of people are really not sure how they want to vote.

[Itsonlyagame]

that pretty much sums up why we shouldn't be in this Union. Threats, scaremongering and doom and gloom awaits because we'd the temerity of contemplating leaving

Ain't that the truth. Aiming veiled threats at us because of what, offering the people of our nation the opportunity, through democratic process, to decide what we think is best for us. Shows some of them up for what they're really all about.

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

Why is it almost every poll I've personally seen on sites, Twitter, radio phone ins & on the street has been almost 60-40 out every time, yet bookies have us to remain?

Are the brexiters just more vocal? From what I've seen, read & heard, I'd say Out was a certainty, but I'm not so sure. I think us outers are in for a nasty shock.

[jmelanie]

Why is it almost every poll I've personally seen on sites, Twitter, radio phone ins & on the street has been almost 60-40 out every time, yet bookies have us to remain?

Are the brexiters just more vocal? From what I've seen, read & heard, I'd say Out was a certainty, but I'm not so sure. I think us outers are in for a nasty shock.

Except the more vocal are more likely to vote. My aunt said that she didn't know which way to vote but if she decided to vote would vote to stay in. However I think it is unlikely she'll bother.

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

Except the more vocal are more likely to vote. My aunt said that she didn't know which way to vote but if she decided to vote would vote to stay in. However I think it is unlikely she'll bother.

Yea good point. Bookies rarely wrong though, so that has me thinking.

[jmelanie]

Yea good point. Bookies rarely wrong though, so that has me thinking.

They were wrong in the Scottish Independence vote and on the last election.