Europe. In or out?

[Snaxo]

I've read this thread with great interest, and can understand some of both sides of the equation. The word fact has been banded about by a lot of people. I have one fact that is undeniable, if we vote leave we will have in place the most right wing government in history. Cameron's austerity will seem like a picnic. Those who will suffer most are you and me, the ordinary man and woman in the street who work hard and just try to get on with life. Just look at the major players of leave, do you really think they want us to take control, as they say ad nauseum? They sense an opportunity to seize power, and are using their powerful friends in the press to help them. If we wake up on Friday to a nation that has voted to leave then don't expect a say in government, expect an extreme right wing clique handing down crumbs if we're lucky.

excellent post.

[cross it Dave]

Late news, German workers will be opposing any tariffs on the UK

It was the head of their CBI, Markus Kerber.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/german-business-chief-calls-possibility-post-brexit-barriers-foolish/

Can this possibly be true or just a spoof.

[Olly]

So we should stay in forever because the tories will be running riot for the next four years, good grief

[easthertsr]

Then the correct thing to do would be to vote them out at the next election.

The Tories are heading rapidly towards being a busted flush anyway with this idiot in charge. The bloke couldn't even win a majority in 2010 after thirteen years of the most inept and deceitful government our country has ever seen. I'm guessing you liked Blair though.

Firstly, I never voted for Blair once, secondly, voting them out of office is four years away. The havoc they could do in that time is unimaginable , the NHS could be in ruins, the weak and the disadvantaged would have to suffer at their hands, we should not give them the chance.

[Snaxo]

Brightonr - I respect your views but bottom line is that there is not one piece of factual evidence (that I have seen - and it doesn't exist because it would be purely theoretical at best) to support your theory that we are likely to be better off in the long run. Further more - the level of pain (mostly for the ordinary man who's already been put through a lot of pain by this and the former government) is potentially quite serious. And if you are right and in the long term we will benefit - how long could we wait? Far too many years.

Here's another article on the subject indicating the level of economic impact we could feel right away, by a man with a track record of getting predictions right (George Soros)

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-george-soros

Gullible and gutless - that's a pretty nasty unsubstantiated comment. Most of my friends and acquaintances are anything but - they are taking their decision with a strong mind and a keen grasp on the facts and realities.
To the contrary - the weak minded are those ably led by the ulterior-motivated press, in particular of course the Sun and (worse) Daily Mail. They lap up their blatant fact manipulation and misrepresentation.

As someone said to me " I think its largely a manifestation of impotent rage towards change, terrorism, austerity and crushing loss of empire.
The same brexiters will moan like buggery when interest rates are 10% and the pound's level pegging with the Dollar a year after we leave."

[Snaxo]

Firstly, I never voted for Blair once, secondly, voting them out of office is four years away. The havoc they could do in that time is unimaginable , the NHS could be in ruins, the weak and the disadvantaged would have to suffer at their hands, we should not give them the chance.

bloody right!

[cross it Dave]

Firstly, I never voted for Blair once, secondly, voting them out of office is four years away. The havoc they could do in that time is unimaginable , the NHS could be in ruins, the weak and the disadvantaged would have to suffer at their hands, we should not give them the chance.

You don't have much choice, they are a democratically elected government in a fixed term parliament with a majority all be it small, sorry.

[Itsonlyagame]

It was the head of their CBI, Markus Kerber.

http://order-order.com/2016/06/22/german-business-chief-calls-possibility-post-brexit-barriers-foolish/

Can this possibly be true or just a spoof.

It's blindingly obvious the prominent voices within the eu are going to threaten to take a tough stance with us. The second largest economy leaving, it's the last thing they need and will signal the beginning of the end of their plan. When the cold light of day dawns, will they want to start a trade war with Britain, unlikely. It would hurt us but it would hurt them too, more than they'd want it too.
But as Brighton says, the lily livered will probably win the day. Head down, don't rock the boat, normal service resumed and all that.

[jmelanie]

My husband just got back from the osteopath and his osteopath asked him who could vote in the election. He (my husband) told him that it was British citizens, Commonwealth and Irish citizens living in the U.K. along with British citizens who have lived abroad for less than 15 years. The osteopath replied that he had several European friends and they had received voting cards. I double-checked with the election department for Southwark who confirmed that Europeans could not vote. I asked him what would happen if they had received voting cards. He assured me that if they go to the polling station, their credentials will be checked and they won't be allowed to vote. I am not convinced this will happen and if this is true and the result is close it could null and void the whole election.

Also regarding the above comments hasn't Corbyn demanded a general election if we vote to leave. If Cameron were to resign I think this is a real possibility.

[jmelanie]

Enough about your 4 year degree in European relations Mel, do you have an A level in geography

Sorry I missed too much Geography. Our Geography teacher who was just out of college disappeared after the boys in my class put a bucket of water on top of the door when she was about to come into the room. It was rumoured she had a breakdown.

[jmelanie]

only 8,000 immigrants chose to move to Scotland last year. 270,000+ chose the rest of Britain. No wonder the Scots have no problem with mass immigration

If we vote to leave visitors from the EU will be able to purchase tax-free Scotch when they visit the U.K. Surely the Scots should be happy about this.

[Snaxo]

Sorry I missed too much Geography. Our Geography teacher who was just out of college disappeared after the boys in my class put a bucket of water on top of the door when she was about to come into the room. It was rumoured she had a breakdown.

[CroydonCaptainJack]

I've read this thread with great interest, and can understand some of both sides of the equation. The word fact has been banded about by a lot of people. I have one fact that is undeniable, if we vote leave we will have in place the most right wing government in history. Cameron's austerity will seem like a picnic. Those who will suffer most are you and me, the ordinary man and woman in the street who work hard and just try to get on with life. Just look at the major players of leave, do you really think they want us to take control, as they say ad nauseum? They sense an opportunity to seize power, and are using their powerful friends in the press to help them. If we wake up on Friday to a nation that has voted to leave then don't expect a say in government, expect an extreme right wing clique handing down crumbs if we're lucky.

With all due respect that isn't a fact though is it?

[brightonr]

Firstly, I never voted for Blair once, secondly, voting them out of office is four years away. The havoc they could do in that time is unimaginable , the NHS could be in ruins, the weak and the disadvantaged would have to suffer at their hands, we should not give them the chance.

You do like a bit of an over reaction and panic, don't you?

Pretty sure I've heard similar unsubstantiated scaremongering from our current Prime Minister amongst others recently.

Anyway, good to see you back even though we disagree about a lot of things.

[jmelanie]

There will be no further renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with the EU after the referendum, European Commission president Jean Claude Juncker has said. In a last minute intervention that will be viewed as deeply unhelpful by David Cameron and the Remain camp, Mr Juncker said the Prime Minister had already “got the maximum he could receive” from his pre-referendum negotiation in February. Mr Cameron has said repeatedly this week that he will use a Remain vote to push for further reform of the EU, particularly around freedom of movement rules.

This is supposed to be in support of Remain.