Let's settle it. Is Mackie good enough for the Premier League?

[OneEyedWilly]

Leader of what... clumsy running?

Hahaha ..... nah someone who shows other players what commitment is, even if he isn't the best footballer.

[OldSchool]

Not for me. Very average player at best, clouded in the minds of many because he runs a lot..... sorry but in the prem you need quality more than effort. Not dissing that as a trait, because a player with both is worth their weight in gold, such as the likes of Rooney top end, but as an option, who would you rather Berbatov or Mackie?

What annoys me more than anything with Mackie is he's almost as greedy as Adel, but with a fraction of the talent to justify the things he tries. Adel can infuriate, but you know on occasions he can pull it off, but what makes Mackie think he can beat 3 or 4 players and it's a better option than a pass......? The fact he normally only beats players by bundling through them, or generally just runs into them losing the ball, or just runs out of play sums him up. He is a grafter no doubt, and his only place should be as an impact sub against tiring defenders where his pace and tenacity can cause mistakes, but never a starter in a million years for me as he has a very poor football brain.

Can't see how anyone could disagree with this.

[Ric-Roc]

I can't dels spot on with that assessment.

[Park Street Ranger]

Personally, I think Del hits row Z with his assessment.

[Del]

Personally, I think Del hits row Z with his assessment.

Care to elaborate?

Or do you think running into opponents, or kick and run football when it's obvious he won't beat the players in front of him, rather than simply passing to team mates in better positions is a sign of an intelligent footballer?

Or are you a fan who thinks running a lot is all that matters......?

If it's all about running loads we might as well sign up Mo Farah.

[Norths]

Personally, I think Del hits row Z with his assessment.

Del was spot on.

[qpr_forever]

IMO he's an impact sub thanks to his never say die attitude. Should not be starting, but can perform in the prem.

[TBLOCKRANGER]

Difficult to be critical of Mackie, has scored goals in the prem which puts him in the upper echelons of the squad. As to aimlessly going forward, that is true but it's the only way we go forward. It beats the goalie hoofing it up the field for SWP to knock down for cisse which appeared to be the alternative on Sunday.
Adel does the same thing but with skill but the reason behind it is the same as with Mackie that it's the only way to get the ball forward for us, i accept it's schoolboy football that you pick the ball up and just run but we have no outlets, unlike other teams who move forward as a unit, we seem to have a defence that has never been in the opponents half, a midfield that when being non existent has the likes of Diakite and Mbia that are incapable of supporting the forward line, SWP just goes missing. Up front Cisse is marked by at least 2 defenders.
Adel has no option save to pick the ball up and go forward, it worked against Fulham but no one else this season, Mackie also does the same, as a club we don't swarm forward, so to then being critical of Mackie for going forward seems harsh.
Lastly the idea Mackie hasn't got a footballing brain isn't correct IMHO, he's worked out we are rubbish and tries to force the game, can't see much wrong with that.

[Del]

Difficult to be critical of Mackie, has scored goals in the prem which puts him in the upper echelons of the squad. As to aimlessly going forward, that is true but it's the only way we go forward. It beats the goalie hoofing it up the field for SWP to knock down for cisse which appeared to be the alternative on Sunday.
Adel does the same thing but with skill but the reason behind it is the same as with Mackie that it's the only way to get the ball forward for us, i accept it's schoolboy football that you pick the ball up and just run but we have no outlets, unlike other teams who move forward as a unit, we seem to have a defence that has never been in the opponents half, a midfield that when being non existent has the likes of Diakite and Mbia that are incapable of supporting the forward line, SWP just goes missing. Up front Cisse is marked by at least 2 defenders.
Adel has no option save to pick the ball up and go forward, it worked against Fulham but no one else this season, Mackie also does the same, as a club we don't swarm forward, so to then being critical of Mackie for going forward seems harsh.
Lastly the idea Mackie hasn't got a footballing brain isn't correct IMHO, he's worked out we are rubbish and tries to force the game, can't see much wrong with that.

This is simply not true. They both try to beat players countless times when there are much, much better options. To say Mackie and Adel try to beat teams on their own is becasue they don't have any options is simply ridiculous. There are plenty of times we have numbers in advanced areas or breaking, but they don;t pass the ball or use it correctly meaning attacks grind to a halt.

[Yousef]

Yes, but the problem is he is overlooked as striker. He scored 2 goals, one of them when he was striker and one as a winger while useless Cisse scored 3. Says it really.

[Park Street Ranger]

Care to elaborate?

Or do you think running into opponents, or kick and run football when it's obvious he won't beat the players in front of him, rather than simply passing to team mates in better positions is a sign of an intelligent footballer?

Or are you a fan who thinks running a lot is all that matters......?

If it's all about running loads we might as well sign up Mo Farah.

OK, 'very average players at best' who are not actually strikers do not score 18 goals in less than 80 appearances, including match winners against Liverpool and a potentially relegation saving goal at the Etihad. 'Very average players at best' do not probably do this after recovering from career threatening broken legs (7 month lay off) or gain international recognition after the injury. 'Very average players at best' would probably be overlooked by at least one of three high profile managers in the game (NW, MH, HR).

[stainrod10]

Why single Mackie out? Are any of them good enough?

[Del]

OK, 'very average players at best' who are not actually strikers do not score 18 goals in less than 80 appearances, including match winners against Liverpool and a potentially relegation saving goal at the Etihad. 'Very average players at best' do not probably do this after recovering from career threatening broken legs (7 month lay off) or gain international recognition after the injury. 'Very average players at best' would probably be overlooked by at least one of three high profile managers in the game (NW, MH, HR).

Goals in the Championship for a team running away with the league are not really relevant when deciding whether he's good enough for the prem. He is good enough for the Championship and i'd say an average player at that level.

As for scoring goals in the prem, any professional player should have the ability to score a goal past a keeper given the right situation. I know i could and i'm not a pro. That doesn't make him a good player.

Ref injury, yes he's done well to recover, but with modern treatment most players do recover well... that doesn't make him a good player.

International recognition for Scotland, who are shocking.... please. How does that make him better than average?

As for the managers playing him... NW signed him and wasn't initially given enough payers in the window to do anything but play him. MH played him off the bench mainly, before he could bring in most of his plasyers in the summer. HR has decided the current squad is pretty naff and full of mercenaries not grafting and has played grafters, of which Mackie certinaly is. IF he'd been able to bring in his own players i'm sure Mackie would not feature.

[Park Street Ranger]

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of his weaknesses as well as his strengths, but Mackie was one of the reasons we did run away with the Championship, so to say he is average at that level is laughable. Also, I think you're underestimating the difficulty in scoring prem goals even when given the right situation. Top prem strikers miss one-on-one chances and sitters every week. The point about playing for Scotland was just to emphasise his recovery from injury.

[Del]

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of his weaknesses as well as his strengths, but Mackie was one of the reasons we did run away with the Championship, so to say he is average at that level is laughable. Also, I think you're underestimating the difficulty in scoring prem goals even when given the right situation. Top prem strikers miss one-on-one chances and sitters every week. The point about playing for Scotland was just to emphasise his recovery from injury.

His early goals in the Championship were a flash in the pan and proved as they dried up completely. Patrick Agyemang had a more impressive run of goals in a worse side at that level once.... i'm sure most would say he's average at best too. Point is a few goals mean little.

Ref prem goals, i'm not underestimating what it takes to score a goal, prem or not. Some of the worst players we've seen in the prem have scored a few goals...it means little. I'm sure Rob Hulse has scored in the prem among many others.

Ref misses by some top players.... that's irrelevant here. Yes everyone can miss some on occasion, even he best, but the point was anyone who can play the game could score given the right situation... What 's more relevant for this debate is that Mackie has missed plenty of glaring chances and will always do so. Off the top of my head some shockers this season include Swansea from 6 yards when 1-0 and Fulham the other week when 0-0 and clear through. I know there are plenty more.