Boxing Day game could be called off

[willis1980]

Loved the last line. Absolute ********. As is your entire post. Just a little information about the Olympics for you. The whole dispute was not about greed, it was mainly to do with them changing our driving parameters during the Olympics. Having to work longer without a break and having to work more hours than contracted to. I'll leave it there, cos people like you believe what u wanna believe and like Vespa said... Couldn't really give a **** what u think.

i know a few tube drivers who arent particularily thrilled about strike action and the loos of pay theyll incur. it often feels like people who arent in the possesion of all the facts or any for that matter try and put their point across in a pretty pompous manner. as for the ridiculous sheep argument, im pretty sure any of us on here would kick up a right stink if they were told they had to work an extra few hours for 3 or so weeks and wouldnt appreciate being castigated for it by all and sundry (largely due to a media incited with hunt intended to serve their own agendas). the way i see it is if somebody tries to f@ck with your affairs you stand up for yourself, if you dont you only have yourself to blame.

[Fraggy]

I'm sure a lot is changed over the years, but I worked for LUL from 89-94.

True, you don't need a university degree to get a job, & the training we received was pretty full on. The amount of books that were required to be learnt back to front meant that in a 6 week course for Foreman; out of 16 of us, only 3 of us passed the final rules n regs exam (not long after this, they changed the format to multiple choice as they were running out of good candidates).

Also, any idea what is involved if you want to move a train backwards?
Or what if you’re stuck in a lift & need a rescue?

Who here has had to short circuit a track that is carrying 630volts dc?

Anyone on here, ever had to climb under a train with the power still on & lay with a body while you await a medical doctor to arrive & pronounce the person dead?

Has anyone on here, ever been attacked at their place of work?

Also, if the public would have supported us more back in the early 90s, you would of prevented the biggest crime of all, & that was the de-manning of non section 12 stations.

Also, who here is aware of the policy as to why LUL took guards of the back of trains?
The reason behind it is simple:
When we had guards, it would be the guards duty in the event of a fire on a train, to walk forward to the middle & secure all the passengers, & walk them back out through the rear of the train; the driver would do likewise & evacuate the front half through his cab.
The powers that be back then, did a bit of research & worked out that they really didn't have that many fires on trains, & the few that they did where there was injury or loss of life was cheaper to compensate the families than it was to pay the guards wages for a year. Also they didn't give a crap about single woman travelling on their own at night that would normally sit in the guards carriage for safety, as a few poor women getting attacked or raped did not justify the cost of a guard.
Also, someone mentioned on here why do we not have the technology to do away with drivers all together.
Well, they tried, I think it was in 1992, they tested this on the Victoria line after close; but they found a few problems; people getting trapped in the doors & nobody to assist in an emergency.

Maybe if the public were more behind they're public transport system back then, then the privatisation that took place & made life even more unbearable for employees, may not of happened.

[NW9_RANGER]

I'm sure a lot is changed over the years, but I worked for LUL from 89-94.

True, you don't need a university degree to get a job, & the training we received was pretty full on. The amount of books that were required to be learnt back to front meant that in a 6 week course for Foreman; out of 16 of us, only 3 of us passed the final rules n regs exam (not long after this, they changed the format to multiple choice as they were running out of good candidates).

Also, any idea what is involved if you want to move a train backwards?
Or what if you’re stuck in a lift & need a rescue?

Who here has had to short circuit a track that is carrying 630volts dc?

Anyone on here, ever had to climb under a train with the power still on & lay with a body while you await a medical doctor to arrive & pronounce the person dead?

Has anyone on here, ever been attacked at their place of work?

Also, if the public would have supported us more back in the early 90s, you would of prevented the biggest crime of all, & that was the de-manning of non section 12 stations.

Also, who here is aware of the policy as to why LUL took guards of the back of trains?
The reason behind it is simple:
When we had guards, it would be the guards duty in the event of a fire on a train, to walk forward to the middle & secure all the passengers, & walk them back out through the rear of the train; the driver would do likewise & evacuate the front half through his cab.
The powers that be back then, did a bit of research & worked out that they really didn't have that many fires on trains, & the few that they did where there was injury or loss of life was cheaper to compensate the families than it was to pay the guards wages for a year. Also they didn't give a crap about single woman travelling on their own at night that would normally sit in the guards carriage for safety, as a few poor women getting attacked or raped did not justify the cost of a guard.
Also, someone mentioned on here why do we not have the technology to do away with drivers all together.
Well, they tried, I think it was in 1992, they tested this on the Victoria line after close; but they found a few problems; people getting trapped in the doors & nobody to assist in an emergency.

Maybe if the public were more behind they're public transport system back then, then the privatisation that took place & made life even more unbearable for employees, may not of happened.

Top post

[MattyRangers]

Fair points there Fraggy but what I will say is have you ever drawn blood from your finger whilst extracting a staple in your workplace? I have. Not cool.

[Fraggy]

Fair points there Fraggy but what I will say is have you ever drawn blood from your finger whilst extracting a staple in your workplace? I have. Not cool.

I had been attacked at various times with knives, thrown onto a live track; got caught in a mini riot between bods from Edgware & Colindale who were armed to the teeth & running through our staff areas at Edgware; I was headbutted by a suit because he missed his train, I carried out lift to lift transfers at Hampstead, which at the time had the deepest lift shaft in The U.K., I had to lay under a train with the power still on trying to reassure a passenger that everything was going to be OK, even though she had lost a leg, I had to watch on CCTV from Finchley Central while a woman was attacked & beaten by a small mob at Mill Hill East, while we waited for the Police to attend, disturbed a break in in Hendon Central in the middle of the night by 2 idiots trying to rob the pay phones; the list goes on & on, but I am sure you get what I mean Matty.
As for the staple in the finger scenario, that does 'smart' a bit (a bit like when you cut a finger nail too short) :strive:

[MattyRangers]

I had been attacked at various times with knives, thrown onto a live track; got caught in a mini riot between bods from Edgware & Colindale who were armed to the teeth & running through our staff areas at Edgware; I was headbutted by a suit because he missed his train, I carried out lift to lift transfers at Hampstead, which at the time had the deepest lift shaft in The U.K., I had to lay under a train with the power still on trying to reassure a passenger that everything was going to be OK, even though she had lost a leg, I had to watch on CCTV from Finchley Central while a woman was attacked & beaten by a small mob at Mill Hill East, while we waited for the Police to attend, disturbed a break in in Hendon Central in the middle of the night by 2 idiots trying to rob the pay phones; the list goes on & on, but I am sure you get what I mean Matty.
As for the staple in the finger scenario, that does 'smart' a bit (a bit like when you cut a finger nail too short) :strive:

Bl00dy hell. Fair play to ya Fraggy, in all seriousness thats alot of $hit to be exposed to in a workplace.

[Fraggy]

Bl00dy hell. Fair play to ya Fraggy, in all seriousness thats alot of $hit to be exposed to in a workplace.

There sure is Matty (I have a publisher that wants me to write a book on my expereince at LUL); I didn't resign because of the above; I resigned on principle; it became obvious to most that the welfare of our passengers was far down the list of priorities from our head office, & I found that no matter what I said or tried to do, it wasn't making a difference & I didn't want to be around should another Kings Cross disaster materialize.

I just find it a bit rich, when users of the system, are sticking up for the big wigs, when the big wigs don't give a crap about they're safety & only the bottom line.

Yeh, the pay & holidays were great; but that was only because once you signed up, they owned your life. As someone on here mentioned about not being able to drink unless you had 2 days off together; that is true. The fact you could turn up for work on a Saturday morning at 5am to be greeted by an alchole & drug testing unit & asked to p iss in a bottle was crazy.
As for our pothead friends, they were fooked; THC stays in your system on average for 30 days; therefore, if you wanted to take a hit on a joint, you had to have a 30 day holiday so as not to be sacked. I had a mate, who was a puffer, but he had been ill for a week, so he hadn't smoked anything during that week; he was tested the next time he booked on for duty & was sacked for having THC in his urine.

[vespa]

Bl00dy hell. Fair play to ya Fraggy, in all seriousness thats alot of $hit to be exposed to in a workplace.

It is that , unfortunately it counts for nothing , in some peoples eyes because " you should have tried harder at school " and " its not a skilled job"

[Bigdave]

Fair points there Fraggy but what I will say is have you ever drawn blood from your finger whilst extracting a staple in your workplace? I have. Not cool.

Just nearly spat my tea all over the laptop!!

[wicksta]

Loved the last line. Absolute ********. As is your entire post. Just a little information about the Olympics for you. The whole dispute was not about greed, it was mainly to do with them changing our driving parameters during the Olympics. Having to work longer without a break and having to work more hours than contracted to. I'll leave it there, cos people like you believe what u wanna believe and like Vespa said... Couldn't really give a **** what u think.

A lot of people had to change their work patterns or do more around the time of the Olympics, myself included.

What were the differences in your break times? Sounds like you are lucky - most people only get the legal amount of breaks required at work, do you normally get more than everyone else then? And what were the differences to your contracted hours?

The problem with these arguments is all the moaning but no actual figures to back anything up. It's no wonder that those who work outside of the public sector don't really get it. We see reported figures that we're told are wrong (normally in a very angry/defensive tone), but no figures that are supposedly right as a comparison.

[NW9_RANGER]

Not going to get into it anymore but we get half an hour break per day, including during the Olympics when they extended our working hours.

[brightonr]

Fraggy makes some great points.

I doubt if many of us are too aware what any of our fellow posters might have to contend with during the course of their working week. So probably best not to make assumptions and highlight only certain things as it would seem it is very easy to appear foolish.

Pretty sure though, that if tube/train/bus drivers etc., refused to take strike action due to not wanting to inconvenience the public, that public may well offer far more support when it matters. As opposed to some of the pretty blanket guesswork in evidence on this thread.

[vespa]

The problem is you dont get to hear about it when we vote not to strike ,as i said in a previous post ,we havnt had a strike on the overground for about 20 years

[silvercue]

Wow - you had to change your break times. Did you have to work 10 minutes longer??

I am crying - really I am.

Where I work eveyone has had to work longer for less, like most places. Pay cuts - longer hours. We don't get any breaks - I haven't had a break for probably 10 years. Yes, I could decide to make a fuss, but I don't. Like most people. We have unions, but I don't want anything to do with them. I eat while I work. Would I go on strike - no I wouldn't. No matter what I did. I am glad you don't give a sh1t because I don't give a sh1t about people like you.

[Sminky]

I'm not going to be popular but personally this notion of striking is thoroughly unBritish and an unpleasant Labour Edifice. In the 70s the power of the Trade Unions reigned supreme and whilst the intent to recognize the rights of employees began at the heart of the movement, it became more about fighting a class war. The unions were anarcho-syndicalist in their attitude, fighting the system and seeking self governance and it is little wonder Thatcher sought to squash them. I'm all for rights at work and having a body to represent your concerns but using the unions to sate that human desire for struggle and conflict is not justifiable. Doctors work obscene hours and treated appallingly by the NHS yet conduct themselves with greater decorum.

The need to fight the establishment is folly, for every battle you may win you will end up losing the war in the long run. Your best bet is to find another job and accept that we cannot pick and choose our conditions of employment.

Do I think the Tube drivers have a tough job, yes and I certainly wouldn't want to do it ... but I think striking on Boxing Day is unconscionable when it will affect employees of Hospitals, Hotels and the public who have badly paid jobs to attend to as well who aren't so fortunate to be able to pick and choose when they work.

Get a grip.