The thread to end all threads about Koreans following particular football players

[Snaxo]

Very good post, but it does further hi-light the innate differences (possibly) between UK (and European?) fans and Asian fans. The reality is that very few mature English football supporters would have any interest at all in LA Galaxy. It makes no difference that David Beckham plays for them. Even if multiple top english players played for them, it still would make no difference.

I used the word 'mature' because the possible exception could be some children, who may indeed follow Beckham specifically.

In fact, you'll find English supporters rather curious in many ways. For example, we might rave about the qualities of Wayne Rooney as an England player and give him our full support in an England shirt, but when he visits QPR with Manchester United you'll find that any mistake he makes will likely get cheered and he'll face ridicule and a certain level of football 'banter' (effectively, abuse!). That's just the way we are. And ultimately, most UK football supporters would probably support their club over their country, if they were forced to make a choice.

However, despite all this, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't:

a) accept that other cultures are different - and the way their 'support' works is different. And different does not mean better or worse, simply, different
b) welcome all supporters (for whatever reason) with an open arms - we should! Money makes a huge contribution to success in football. And we want our club to be successful. Ergo, not welcoming any additional support for any reason does not really make a whole heap of sense, considering.

Btw, welcome to the forum Joon. Great first post, overall

[vblockranger]

Very good post, but it does further hi-light the innate differences (possibly) between UK (and European?) fans and Asian fans. The reality is that very few mature English football supporters would have any interest at all in LA Galaxy. It makes no difference that David Beckham plays for them. Even if multiple top english players played for them, it still would make no difference.

I used the word 'mature' because the possible exception could be some children, who may indeed follow Beckham specifically.

In fact, you'll find English supporters rather curious in many ways. For example, we might rave about the qualities of Wayne Rooney as an England player and give him our full support in an England shirt, but when he visits QPR with Manchester United you'll find that any mistake he makes will likely get cheered and he'll face ridicule and a certain level of football 'banter' (effectively, abuse!). That's just the way we are. And ultimately, most UK football supporters would probably support their club over their country, if they were forced to make a choice.

However, despite all this, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't:

a) accept that other cultures are different - and the way their 'support' works is different. And different does not mean better or worse, simply, different
b) welcome all supporters (for whatever reason) with an open arms - we should! Money makes a huge contribution to success in football. And we want our club to be successful. Ergo, not welcoming any additional support for any reason does not really make a whole heap of sense, considering.

Btw, welcome to the forum Joon. Great first post, overall

thats a good post mate.
I think with the overwhelming majority of UK fans its always club over country. There is even England players that i hate to see in an England shirt and has put me off supporting England. In my case i couldnt care less about England football team and would take 3 points for QPR over England winning a tournament. I have had plenty of favourite QPR players over the years but once they leave QPR i would never consider supporting or following the new team they play for. I wish them well in some cases but wouldnt go to watch them if my team is not involved. Dont know how many Korean fans will stay with QPR once Park leaves (soon i hope because imo he is finished as a premiership player) but i dont think there will be too many. Wonder how many stayed behind at Manchester Utd especially after they have replaced Park with that Japanese player..now there is a good Asian player! why is it we always end up with the tat? even when we buy for marketing purposes only?

[Joon]

I was on about user jaejaxon2000, sorry should have made that clear.

As for racism, this isnt about the ######## comment is it?

No, it was not about the "########" comment. It was the one where Factamondo made a remark to the effect that Asians are too lightweight to play football and should just play ping pong or shuttlecock. I responded to it and called it out as an ignorant, racist comment. I also pointed out that the "lightweight" team from South Korea had just a few months ago soundly defeated Team GB in the London Summer Olympics, of all places, and ultimately placed third.

That was the only blatantly explicit racist remark I've come across so far, but I've been reading many other posts that are quite borderline. That ######## comment would be racist if the poster knew about the sensitivity of the word before using it, but it was not clear enough so I did not comment in that particular thread.


@vblockranger, that definition of supporter and fan is your own, and just because you define it that way, it does not mean that you have any right to mistreat those people that don't fit your own description of supporter.

Furthermore, I suspect you must be blind or have a bad memory since you posted in the thread shortly after the racist post I just mentioned.

Also, you are twisting my analogy about L.A. Galaxy to mean something else. I said that a good number of people became interested in L.A. Galaxy after Beckham's transfer, not everyone or even a significant percentage of English football fans. Read more closely.

Same with the "racism is ingrained in English culture" bit. I did not say that racism is ingrained in English culture -- I was pointing out that NortholtRanger probably didn't mean that, so he must have made a wrong statement.


Now that I have answered your posts, I will ask that the both of you stop trying to pretend like racism is not present in this forum. It is here, as it is in most places. Deal with it like grown, educated men.

[vblockranger]

No, it was not about the "########" comment. It was the one where Factamondo made a remark to the effect that Asians are too lightweight to play football and should just play ping pong or shuttlecock. I responded to it and called it out as an ignorant, racist comment. I also pointed out that the "lightweight" team from South Korea had just a few months ago soundly defeated Team GB in the London Summer Olympics, of all places, and ultimately placed third.

That was the only blatantly explicit racist remark I've come across so far, but I've been reading many other posts that are quite borderline. That ######## comment would be racist if the poster knew about the sensitivity of the word before using it, but it was not clear enough so I did not comment in that particular thread.


@vblockranger, that definition of supporter and fan is your own, and just because you define it that way, it does not mean that you have any right to mistreat those people that don't fit your own description of supporter.

Furthermore, I suspect you must be blind or have a bad memory since you posted in the thread shortly after the racist post I just mentioned.

Also, you are twisting my analogy about L.A. Galaxy to mean something else. I said that a good number of people became interested in L.A. Galaxy after Beckham's transfer, not everyone or even a significant percentage of English football fans. Read more closely.



Now that I have answered your posts, I will ask that the both of you stop trying to pretend like racism is not present in this forum. It is here, as it is in most places. Deal with it like grown, educated men.

Same goes for you mate
And saying that Korean players are lightweight also isnt racist. They are generally small in stature and the premiership is a tough physical league. I also think that A lot of Korean footballers are too lightweight and not suited for the rigors of the premiership. Mind you our back four we have had at times this season have played like lightweights and we might as well have had an all Korean back four. :-)

[vblockranger]

And as far as the ######## comment goes..whether i know of its sensitivity in Korean culture or not it still is not racist for me to use it. Now i know it is sensitive in Korea i wouldnt use it if i ever visited your country but dont start telling me what i can or cant say in my own country. It is a comment used in everyday language where i am from...deal with it like a grown, educated man if you ever visit my country or if you see people use it on the internet.

[Joon]

Same goes for you mate
And saying that Korean players are lightweight also isnt racist. They are generally small in stature and the premiership is a tough physical league. I also think that A lot of Korean footballers are too lightweight and not suited for the rigors of the premiership. Mind you our back four we have had at times this season have played like lightweights and we might as well have had an all Korean back four. :-)

Oh, I am responding to it in the most mature way that I know.

Grown, educated men do not condone racism, bigotism or xenophobia. Do you not agree?

[Norths]

No, it was not about the "########" comment. It was the one where Factamondo made a remark to the effect that Asians are too lightweight to play football and should just play ping pong or shuttlecock. I responded to it and called it out as an ignorant, racist comment. I also pointed out that the "lightweight" team from South Korea had just a few months ago soundly defeated Team GB in the London Summer Olympics, of all places, and ultimately placed third.

That was the only blatantly explicit racist remark I've come across so far, but I've been reading many other posts that are quite borderline. That ######## comment would be racist if the poster knew about the sensitivity of the word before using it, but it was not clear enough so I did not comment in that particular thread.

On Facto, I didnt see that comment so cant comment.

As for ########, it is a term used to describe a very poor performance in this country.

This is an English forum, with English culture, it is ours. We welcome those from other countries to use it but dont expect us to operate in a way that pleases them. Its the other way round my friend.

You seem like a decent-ish chap who hasnt resorted to insulting the whole forum so lets not get carried away anymore than we need to

[Joon]

And as far as the ######## comment goes..whether i know of its sensitivity in Korean culture or not it still is not racist for me to use it. Now i know it is sensitive in Korea i wouldnt use it if i ever visited your country but dont start telling me what i can or cant say in my own country. It is a comment used in everyday language where i am from...deal with it like grown, educated man

As I said, "if the poster (in this case, you) knew the sensitivity of the word before using it", it would have been a racist comment. But as I also said, it was not clear to me whether you knew the context before you used it, so I did NOT reply to that post nor did I call you a racist over it.

[Snaxo]

Vblock, I know that there is an element of humour in your posts - but you must also realise that they are also clearly going to antagonise. Just wondered why you felt the compelling need to do that? I'm not saying we all need to worry about offending people the whole time - this is an internet forum - you just kind of seem to go out of your way to?

Even in the response to my post you yet again specifically make a derogatory comment about Park - as if deliberately trying to antagonise - for no real reason, it doesn't really add any value to your comment and you know it's going to irritate people.
Have you ever considered a course on emotional intelligence? ;-)

[Joon]

On Facto, I didnt see that comment so cant comment.

As for ########, it is a term used to describe a very poor performance in this country.

This is an English forum, with English culture, it is ours. We welcome those from other countries to use it but dont expect us to operate in a way that pleases them. Its the other way round my friend.

You seem like a decent-ish chap who hasnt resorted to insulting the whole forum so lets not get carried away anymore than we need to

Oh, actually ######## is quite universally used to describe the same in the USA as well. I am well aware of its use in that context. As I posted above and again to vblockranger, I qualified it by saying that "if the poster knew about the sensitivity of the word before posting". vblock says he did not know. I will take his word for it.

However, if someone, English or not, knew its sensitivity to Koreans and used it anyway, it would have been racist, wouldn't you agree?

[vblockranger]

As I said, "if the poster (in this case, you) knew the sensitivity of the word before using it", it would have been a racist comment. But as I also said, it was not clear to me whether you knew the context before you used it, so I did NOT reply to that post nor did I call you a racist over it.

but i now know the sensitivity of the word in Korean culture and it wont stop me from using it...so do you think i am being racist?

[Norths]

Oh, actually ######## is quite universally used to describe the same in the USA as well. I am well aware of its use in that context. As I posted above and again to vblockranger, I qualified it by saying that "if the poster knew about the sensitivity of the word before posting". vblock says he did not know. I will take his word for it.

However, if someone, English or not, knew its sensitivity to Koreans and used it anyway, it would have been racist, wouldn't you agree?

Nope, since this isnt a korean forum. Now if Vblock was to go on a korean forum and say something along the lines of 'You are all ########' then i could understand you all not being too happy.

[vblockranger]

Vblock, I know that there is an element of humour in your posts - but you must also realise that they are also clearly going to antagonise. Just wondered why you felt the compelling need to do that? I'm not saying we all need to worry about offending people the whole time - this is an internet forum - you just kind of seem to go out of your way to?

Even in the response to my post you yet again specifically make a derogatory comment about Park - as if deliberately trying to antagonise - for no real reason, it doesn't really add any value to your comment and you know it's going to irritate people.
Have you ever considered a course on emotional intelligence? ;-)

so its best not to mention my opinion on Park in case it upsets a Korean fan? should we all just avoid mentioning how poor he has been ? why? because it antagonizes them? I like Joey Barton, like the way he plays with aggression and heart and spirit. Now can everyone stop having a go at him cos it antagonizes me.......that be ok then? :-)

[Snaxo]

No, if he plays poorly then no problem, in context. Doesn't matter where he's from. Though Park clearly is not a rubbish player per se, just hasn't been much good for us (so far), but that's another topic.

What I am saying is that, even in a thread that has nothing to do with player performances, but is discussing cultural differences (which was originated by an individual who was trying to help us understand their mindset better, and in which we have responded rightfully to help him understand ours), you still manage to slip in a negative comment about Park. It's almost as if you are actually not interested at all in improving relations with our new Korean fans, who have rightfully or wrongfully (and for what it's worth I agree that they also need to understand our culture - and the dog**** thread was a good example of that) taken offence at some of our posts - and just want to continue to antagonise.

May not be what you are doing it all, but it does 'appear' like that, to me at least. I just don't see the point.

[Joon]

but i now know the sensitivity of the word in Korean culture and it wont stop me from using it...so do you think i am being racist?

Probably not anymore in this particular thread, because you would just be saying it out of spite. It really depends on what you are thinking of as you say or write it. After all, racism often burns within, sometimes without the person even realizing it.

However, let's take take a similar, more severe word. Yes, the n word. If you did not know the malignant context involved with the word and called a black man by that word, you may not have been racist in saying so. Let's say you got a rough education on the definition of that word. If you used the same word thereafter, would it be racist or not? Answer is, it's what you're feeling inside when you are saying it.