The effect of lack of consequences - can HR overcome this

[Snaxo]

Was thinking about this earlier. Thought some more knowledgeable than me might be able to provide insight.

One of the big criticisms of the team has been lack of effort from some players, who seemingly could have come our way having past the best days of their career, on a nice fat contract and for an easy ride.
So it seems that some of these players could get dropped (in the short term- until they buck their ideas up) for some of our longer standing players who lack the same level of talent, but have the spirit and desire that's needed.
Whilst this makes sense, the issue here is that these players (in some case) are arguably not good enough for what we need.

So what we need is the more capable players pulling their socks up.

But if they have been taking it easy so far - what ultimately is going to change their attitude as there doesn't seem any particular consequence for them. What I mean is, in a normal place of work - if you consistently under perform, at some point you are going to be headed down the disciplinary process, which could ultimately lead to the sack (for a full time employee) or contract termination (for a contractor). But it seems footballers contracts don't work like this - and if you sack them / terminate them due to under performance you have to pay up the contract. As they clearly know this is the case, ultimately, what is their motivation to improve as there doesn't seem to be a consequence of any significance attached to not improving !

[brightonr]

Only one way to sort that problem out my friend. And that is to be bold and draw up a new type of contract for the modern PL player. One that does not unconditionally reward lazy/under performing individuals with silly money. Much, much lower basic salaries, with a lot more emphasis on bonuses per point/league position. It would concentrate my mind, for sure.

[zeberdee]

Was thinking about this earlier. Thought some more knowledgeable than me might be able to provide insight.

One of the big criticisms of the team has been lack of effort from some players, who seemingly could have come our way having past the best days of their career, on a nice fat contract and for an easy ride.
So it seems that some of these players could get dropped (in the short term- until they buck their ideas up) for some of our longer standing players who lack the same level of talent, but have the spirit and desire that's needed.
Whilst this makes sense, the issue here is that these players (in some case) are arguably not good enough for what we need.

So what we need is the more capable players pulling their socks up.

But if they have been taking it easy so far - what ultimately is going to change their attitude as there doesn't seem any particular consequence for them. What I mean is, in a normal place of work - if you consistently under perform, at some point you are going to be headed down the disciplinary process, which could ultimately lead to the sack (for a full time employee) or contract termination (for a contractor). But it seems footballers contracts don't work like this - and if you sack them / terminate them due to under performance you have to pay up the contract. As they clearly know this is the case, ultimately, what is their motivation to improve as there doesn't seem to be a consequence of any significance attached to not improving !

It is a really good point and one that often gets overlooked because all to often the media talk is of formations and personalities and 442 451 4312 4321 Christmas Tree !!!

Truth is there is no consequences for them - not comparable to any person in any normal life anyway.

So the only way to motivate them is to try to get inside their heads to the guy who started playing football for the love of it before it was a job.

Redknapp is good at that and players respond to him but it is not easy - these days the players hold most all of the cards.

Harry's experience is a big asset, he can talk footy with anyone and he probably has your boyhood football idol on his mobile phone.

Little things like that can change attitudes for players when money don't really count for nothing because they are millionaires already.

[Fraggy]

I'm not sure if employment regulations have changed since I left The UK, but I do know over here, it is very hard to terminate an underperforming employee.

The disciplinary process is so long: action plans, development coaching, mentoring etc; & even when all of that has been addressed, we find ourselves still having to pay off under performers unless they self destruct & physically attack another employee or customer, fail to turn up or call in for 3 consecutive shifts or get caught stealing.

I agree with brighton, but I'm afraid with the greed of the modern day agent, I feel we are a long way away from being able to implement those type of contracts & still be able to attract the level of player that we want/need.

[Snaxo]

Pretty what I guessed Brightonr - radical change required :/

Fraggy, indeed the disciplinary process is long - but at least there is one, and it's painful for the employee (though also the manager). As long as the right measurable performance criteria is put in place, it can be done. It's better than nothing which it seems, is where we are today.

[Fraggy]

Pretty what I guessed Brightonr - radical change required :/

Fraggy, indeed the disciplinary process is long - but at least there is one, and it's painful for the employee (though also the manager). As long as the right measurable performance criteria is put in place, it can be done. It's better than nothing which it seems, is where we are today.

I guess you are right Snaxo, but I fear we are along way off in implementing these ideas into pro footballers contracts :(

[stainrodisalegend]

Only one way to sort that problem out my friend. And that is to be bold and draw up a new type of contract for the modern PL player. One that does not unconditionally reward lazy/under performing individuals with silly money. Much, much lower basic salaries, with a lot more emphasis on bonuses per point/league position. It would concentrate my mind, for sure.

Agree with the sentiment but it is hard enough to attract decent players to a club like ours as it is - and in Jan we face the same dilemma. If we want the likes of Dawson etc there is no way he will agree to any conditions like that. The only players who will are lower league ones with nothing to lose. But are they the answer now?

[Snaxo]

Well, it's clearly something that couldn't be implemented piecemeal. Either it apply to all contracts, or none. So I guess for something like this to be bought in to football (or in other words, for football to be bought in line with the real world), the FA/FIFA/UEFA would have to stipulate as a regulation. So I guess not going to happen, but at the same time, it's a crazy situation.

[SmartRs]

I guess you just need to talk to Rowan Vine for all the answers?

[Rich]

I completely agree with the idea and desired outcome.

Realistically it's very difficult. I like Chelsea's idea that once a player reaches 30 his contract is always 1 year. A player of this age, with this length of contract has more to play for than someone with 4 years, for example (yes ask Rowan, who incidentally scored the other day...I know crazy that a forward should score)

Hughes made several big mistakes and bringing in too many older players was one of his biggest! Loan players don't tend to work either as we witnessed before NW came in.

Harry has to make the best of what he has for the time being. He will quickly identify the lazy/crap/nuisance players and work with what he has left (so we might get 11 out if we're lucky).

[brightonr]

Agree with the sentiment but it is hard enough to attract decent players to a club like ours as it is - and in Jan we face the same dilemma. If we want the likes of Dawson etc there is no way he will agree to any conditions like that. The only players who will are lower league ones with nothing to lose. But are they the answer now?

Whilst I agree that it is not easy in practice, it simply should happen. Sadly, the stupidity of football club owners and their combined greed along with the players themselves are what has got football into the state it is today.

It is why fans are being priced out of going to games. Why clubs are so desperate to stay amongst the so called "elite", that they don't give managers any time. Why they pick the wrong managers to start with, because they feel the need to act. Why they end up forking out millions paying up contracts of failed employees. Why Sky subscriptions are being forced up. And even more sadly, why fans of some clubs should justifiably be worrying if their club will still exist in ten years.

You will find them agreeing more with these sentiments, when it their clubs that fall foul of the situation.

[Stanley]

Across the board salary caps for all clubs (like they have in the US) is the only way forward.

[QPR Richard]

Across the board salary caps for all clubs (like they have in the US) is the only way forward.

I've long been in favour of that system.

[Factamondo]

Only one way to sort that problem out my friend. And that is to be bold and draw up a new type of contract for the modern PL player. One that does not unconditionally reward lazy/under performing individuals with silly money. Much, much lower basic salaries, with a lot more emphasis on bonuses per point/league position. It would concentrate my mind, for sure.

spot on brights....pay per points won would be good!

[brightonr]

spot on brights....pay per points won would be good!

Yes.

And hope Hughes isn't named your new manager.