Roony's Law

[vblockranger]

I'm not sure the Rooney law is discriminatory, if for example 100 candidates apply for manager at a club and 20 of them are black, my understanding is the Rooney law would simpy state that if 10 are asked in for an interview one of them should be black. No one is losing out (save I suppose the white candidate who came in 10th).
In America this simple introduction resulted in black managers being increased from 6% to somewhere in the 30s. The winning candidate would still be the best on ability.
I think since it's been introduced in the USA only one team has been fined for non compliance, so it's not a law that is causing any dramatic problems.
It may be that as with the 70 s and 80 s when managers only thought black players could play in certain positions, a lot of boards now just think black people can't be managers and are ruling them out at the sift stage of the application process but however when they see them in interview they may consider that isn't quite correct.
I note part of the argument against the law is that ability will always come good and regardless of your background you will get what you deserve, however that is not true. George Osborne and that Fred the shred geezer have got to high office inspite of any ability.
As to home grown players and managers I agree with the arguments but that doesn't mean Rooneys law can't also apply. Gentle light touch regulation should apply saying only managers born in the country should manage the nation. As to white kids, I agree if white kids are being held back then this should be looked into and resolved. If regulation is required to rectify the problem then so be it.
As the game goes more global, some regulation will need to come in to protect home grown talent, some has been introduced already and no one is complaining that this is disciminatory or should be outlawed to allow us get as many talented African kids in our club as we want.

and if that white bloke has more ability than the black guy but misses his interview because of his colour then surely that is racist and defeats the whole object? or does it not matter so much as it is a white guy?

[QPRDave]

Bad idea all round to implement this as plenty of posters have said on here already.Maybe Gordon (slimy) Taylor wouldn't be so keen if it was suggested the PFA union should have a black leader.

[brightonr]

TBLOCKRANGER,

You make your case well and it is clear to me at least that you do so for all the right reasons, as opposed to just being argumentative.

Just one question for you though. Do you believe that the colour of a persons skin, should play any part in determining whether or not they should be interviewed for any job? Because I do not. And I am very pleased to see that the vast majority of our posters think the same.

No doubt some of the comments on here could be regarded as flippant, but once you start having rules for blacks, it could very quickly escalate to gays, women and other so called groups. I genuinely never concern myself about a person's skin colour, sexuality or gender. Partly because it is not anything that is "chosen", it just happens to be a fact and partly because it makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever in terms of how they could perform in their job.

As Richard points out in his last response, it will inevitably lead to the "token black" argument, which would be grossly unfair and an insult to any black candidate.

And as Silvercue has said, fix the root cause, which is simply to accept that skin colour is not at all relevant.

[QPRDave]

TBLOCKRANGER,

You make your case well and it is clear to me at least that you do so for all the right reasons, as opposed to just being argumentative.

Just one question for you though. Do you believe that the colour of a persons skin, should play any part in determining whether or not they should be interviewed for any job? Because I do not. And I am very pleased to see that the vast majority of our posters think the same.

No doubt some of the comments on here could be regarded as flippant, but once you start having rules for blacks, it could very quickly escalate to gays, women and other so called groups. I genuinely never concern myself about a person's skin colour, sexuality or gender. Partly because it is not anything that is "chosen", it just happens to be a fact and partly because it makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever in terms of how they could perform in their job.

As Richard points out in his last response, it will inevitably lead to the "token black" argument, which would be grossly unfair and an insult to any black candidate.

And as Silvercue has said, fix the root cause, which is simply to accept that skin colour is not at all relevant.

Agree totally Brighton

[stanistheman]

Always one

From my understanding Rooneys law isn't about direct representation in coaching or players based on colour in direct proportion to the population. If this was the case then the argument forwarded would be correct and the 7 black players we fielded on Sunday would need to be reduced to a number directly proportionate to the population. However Rooneys law doesn't state this and the fact some suffragettes relative is going on TV doesn't add anything to the argument.
Rooneys law was basically trying to deal with the issue in American football where 70% of the players were black but 6% of the coaches were black. Whatever way you look at it, this seems weird. After the implementation of the law the % went up.

If you compare the American situation with our football then there is a striking similarity, just with our club the % of our players who could be described as black at any one time on the pitch is about 60% to 70% but only 4 coaches in all the divisions are black.

We sit on our high horses saying how backward Serbia are, and how we have moved forward, but any further improvements are met with derision

The law itself as in existence in America doesn't say a club has to have a minimum number of black players or a minimum number of coaches must be in the league directly proportionate to the population.

All the Rooney law says is that when a club interviews for a coach their short list must have a ratio where those interviewed are black. Nothing in the law says you have to give the job to a black interviewee, all it does is it just gives black coaches an opportunity getting past the door.

Lastly, if that means Sir Les can get a few more interviews then I'm all for it considering Dowie somehow seems to be on most clubs short list, if that isn't an argument to bring in the law I don't know what is.

That's my take on this law too.


However, how many Black coaches managers apply for jobs? How many are qualified to do so? That for me is the main issue to tackle. Considering how many black players play the game surely we should get more qualified coaches from them when they quit playing. Perhaps at present they feel that they will not get a fair chance if they do qualify, but this law should encourage them to go for their coaching badges.

[paulmason]

Imagine you are a recently retired black footballer, going for a coaching/managers job at a football league club and you know you are the only black person being interviewed for the position. It must be great for your confidence waiting to be called in for the interview thinking to yourself am I here because I deserve to be, or am I here as a token gesture...............

[Stanley]

All the Rooney law says is that when a club interviews for a coach their short list must have a ratio where those interviewed are black.

And how would that be meritocratic?

[RblockTourist]

That's my take on this law too.


However, how many Black coaches managers apply for jobs? How many are qualified to do so? That for me is the main issue to tackle. Considering how many black players play the game surely we should get more qualified coaches from them when they quit playing. Perhaps at present they feel that they will not get a fair chance if they do qualify, but this law should encourage them to go for their coaching badges.

I saw on one of the Journalist's timelines on twitter (think it was Oliver Holt) that now the number according to the PFA or some such institution that 30% of all newly qualified coaches are black, which when seeing that there are only 3/4 black managers in the whole of the Football league, that is a pretty damning statistic

[RblockTourist]

Imagine you are a recently retired black footballer, going for a coaching/managers job at a football league club and you know you are the only black person being interviewed for the position. It must be great for your confidence waiting to be called in for the interview thinking to yourself am I here because I deserve to be, or am I here as a token gesture...............

How would he even know that he's the only black coach being interviewed? Unless the club tell him during the interview? Which would say to me that they are prob racist anyway if they are only interviewing one black coach because that is the minimum requirement and because they have to, going by the figures I said in the previous post

[vblockranger]

How would he even know that he's the only black coach being interviewed? Unless the club tell him during the interview? Which would say to me that they are prob racist anyway if they are only interviewing one black coach because that is the minimum requirement and because they have to, going by the figures I said in the previous post

?? what?? why??

[TBLOCKRANGER]

I didn't write the law, all I'm saying is from my understanding it isn't as far reaching or worrying as some might believe it to be. It isnt created by the Trotskyite islington set but instead from the owners of the Pittsburg Steelers.

As to Stanley, it's not meritocratic but I presume the purpose of the law is to make the playing field more even so that selections become meritocratic, in essence it's a prerequisite to an meritocrtatic selection process.

To Brighton, me personally I don't agree skin colour should be a basis for selecting someone for an interview, however Rooney (I presume not the pip squeak grab a gran night name sake) or whoever created the idea also doesn't think skin colour should be a basis for selecting someone for an interview, however he must of thought the reality is that the disparity in percentage of players who are black playing American football to the % as coaches and thought it unfair (I do not know whether research was done on whether this was due to poor qualifications, lack of ability etc) but whatever the reason Rooney thought something needed to be done.

It's the same I suppose with Oxbridge entrance. Do top independent schools get higher % of entrance, because the kids are cleverer and have better social skills to deal with interviews and the selection process (often from the same background as the tutors) and therefore it should just be accepted that elite schools should dominate top unis and nothing should be done. Alternately should kids from state schools be given a chance. If state schools kids are to be given a chance then how do you do it, it's always going to be difficult.
As with Rooney law do you just leave things as they are or try to do something even if it's a token gesture as some put it.

[RblockTourist]

?? what?? why??

by average if there are that number of black coaches attaining their badges, there are going to be some that do fit the bill in terms of what the clubs would be looking for and if the club are only going to see one black coach and that is because they have to even though there would be a number up to the task, it would lead me to that conclusion

[stanistheman]

I saw on one of the Journalist's timelines on twitter (think it was Oliver Holt) that now the number according to the PFA or some such institution that 30% of all newly qualified coaches are black, which when seeing that there are only 3/4 black managers in the whole of the Football league, that is a pretty damning statistic

If that is the case, then this law will give them a better chance of securing an interview. after that, it should be down to who the best candidate was.


However, out of the few black managers in recent years, how many of them have been successful?

Ince was ok in his earlier days in the lower leagues but since failing at Blackburn he has failed elsewhere too. Liam Rosenior didnt do much better. Hughton did well with Newcastle in winning promotion, and although some say was unlucky to have been sacked, Pardew is doing a better job.
Keith Curle was not a success in his earlier days, and we will see how well he does now at Notts County.

As stated already on here, Barnes failed dismally.

So now for the next crop of black managers and coaches. Hopefully some better candidates than those above will emerge.

AS

[TBLOCKRANGER]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk4uSFh_wio

[RblockTourist]

If that is the case, then this law will give them a better chance of securing an interview. after that, it should be down to who the best candidate was.


However, out of the few black managers in recent years, how many of them have been successful?

Ince was ok in his earlier days in the lower leagues but since failing at Blackburn he has failed elsewhere too. Liam Rosenior didnt do much better. Hughton did well with Newcastle in winning promotion, and although some say was unlucky to have been sacked, Pardew is doing a better job.
Keith Curle was not a success in his earlier days, and we will see how well he does now at Notts County.

As stated already on here, Barnes failed dismally.

So now for the next crop of black managers and coaches. Hopefully some better candidates than those above will emerge.

AS

1. Its just requiring interviews not giving them jobs, so it is down to the best candidate

2. how can you really justify that comparison? you have picked out pretty much the only black managers ever, baring one or two, which comes to a grand total of 5/6, i could pick out 20 white managers that have done dog ****, so you cant make any real comparison till there has been a number of black managers in jobs for a number of years for that statement on them to have any validity.

But i will say Haughton did a brilliant job at birmingham considering what was happening when he took of the job with quick sales of most of their top players and still getting them to the play offs.