english players alledgedly racially abused in serbia!!

[Shania]

It´s not an ordinary english or whatever club-match we are discussing atm, but a match played on a national level. Like Stanley 76, if he is correct, illustrated, the crowd started the "fire" themselves before the match.

On a sidenote; One can only imagine what Black players have to endure in some of the Eastern European leagues.
In fact, we have also had this problem in Norway. But it seems like it has been more or less solved.

[Will M]

Shania, I respect your opinion, but I feel you have not read a single word I have posted.

[Shania]

Shania, I respect your opinion, but I feel you have not read a single word I have posted.

Ok, fair enough. I will read it all over again then.
:pleasantsuprise::=):

[Will M]

Ok, fair enough. I will read it all over again then.
:pleasantsuprise::=):

I think you're reading it as me saying the England players are to blame in some way, but all i'm saying is celebrating the goal made a horrendous situation even worse. And that this is why England are being charged for failing to control their players.

My worry is, that the Serbs will try and make the case revolve around what we did. So if UEFA at least punish us, the Serbs can't use it as part of their defence. If that makes sense? Sorry if my previous reply came across as harsh, am not feeling so hot today and am frustrated at myself for not being able to get my message across.

[DeepcutHoop]

Shania, I respect your opinion, but I feel you have not read a single word I have posted.

I have, but I disagree that they shouldn't have celebrated.

You can't just appease this idiots by modifying your behaviour to account for their bigotry.

He had been hit with missiles during the game, and there had been racist chants throughout.

And now he is being blamed by the Serbians for provoking them.

It's utter ******** and Rose and the rest of the English players should be praised for making it through the game without walking off.

If UEFA brush this under the carpet with a small fine for the Serbians, then it's a disgrace. If Rose or any England players are charged with anything, it's even worse.

The desire from the major governing bodies to deal with racism in the game has been shown when Croatia got a £10k fine for fans racism, but fined Bendtner £80k for (wrongly) sponsored pants, and Man City got fined £25k for being one minute late for a second half kick off, in a Champs League game.

[Will M]

I have, but I disagree that they shouldn't have celebrated.

You can't just appease this idiots by modifying your behaviour to account for their bigotry.

He had been hit with missiles during the game, and there had been racist chants throughout.

And now he is being blamed by the Serbians for provoking them.

It's utter ******** and Rose and the rest of the English players should be praised for making it through the game without walking off.

If UEFA brush this under the carpet with a small fine for the Serbians, then it's a disgrace. If Rose or any England players are charged with anything, it's even worse.

The desire from the major governing bodies to deal with racism in the game has been shown when Croatia got a £10k fine for fans racism, but fined Bendtner £80k for (wrongly) sponsored pants, and Man City got fined £25k for being one minute late for a second half kick off, in a Champs League game.

But Deepcut, you're still missing the point. Celebrating in front of the opposing fans is not normal behaviour, so expecting them not to do so is not modifying anything.

[IsleworthRanger]

I think it will be years before racism is eradicated in some of these Eastern European Countries and unfortunately whenever I am at an England game in these places we always hear the home fans making monkey noises etc towards our black players

Perhaps its because these places do not have many if any black people living in their Countries and so have never had the chance to mix and intergrate as we have and thats not an excuse for them by the way

Even in Poland this week which you would think would be a modern Country of Europe I honestly dont think I saw a non white face apart from England fans and even saw the odd swastika graffitti which is amazing considering what the Poles went through during the war

[Shania]

I think you're reading it as me saying the England players are to blame in some way, but all i'm saying is celebrating the goal made a horrendous situation even worse. And that this is why England are being charged for failing to control their players.

My worry is, that the Serbs will try and make the case revolve around what we did. So if UEFA at least punish us, the Serbs can't use it as part of their defence. If that makes sense? Sorry if my previous reply came across as harsh, am not feeling so hot today and am frustrated at myself for not being able to get my message across.

No,no. relax, it didn´t come across as harsh at all.:=):
I perfectly see what you mean. In an ideal world, one should have hoped that the english players didn´t take the bait last night. In fact, they should have acted more proffesionally and of couse not celebrated the goal in the way they did. But IMO, they did it out of frustration. But as you state , the only winner after the goal celebration is the Serbs, or even worse; the Uefa.

[Will M]

No,no. relax, it didn´t come across as harsh at all.:=):
I perfectly see what you mean. In an ideal world, one should have hoped that the english players didn´t take the bait last night. In fact, they should have acted more proffesionally and of couse not celebrated the goal in the way they did. But IMO, they did it out of frustration. But as you state , the only winner after the goal celebration is the Serbs, or even worse; the Uefa.

Yes, that's exactly it. Now the Serbs can say, the monkey chants were not racist in nature and the violence happened because England players celebrated in front of their fans. It gives them ammunition to use in their defence, which if we'd played it smarter then they couldn't put up a smokescreen for their disgusting behaviour.

[Will M]

Here is Paul Parker's take on it

[DeepcutHoop]

Yes, that's exactly it. Now the Serbs can say, the monkey chants were not racist in nature and the violence happened because England players celebrated in front of their fans. It gives them ammunition to use in their defence, which if we'd played it smarter then they couldn't put up a smokescreen for their disgusting behaviour.

The Serbian's cretinous response to this, cannot mean that we criticise our players for celebrating a goal. To be subjected to racist chants and hit with missiles from the crowd and the worse we can say is that they celebrated an injury-time winner too much?

[Will M]

The Serbian's cretinous response to this, cannot mean that we criticise our players for celebrating a goal. To be subjected to racist chants and hit with missiles from the crowd and the worse we can say is that they celebrated an injury-time winner too much?

I don't debate strawmen mate, so I will bow out just with saying that celebrating in front of the Serbs is not the same as celebrating too much.

[SammyKojoe]

But Deepcut, you're still missing the point. Celebrating in front of the opposing fans is not normal behaviour, so expecting them not to do so is not modifying anything.

Do you watch football? It is part and parcel of the game when you are the away side. When teams score in front of the loft do you see them sprint 90 yards in order not to celebrate in front of the home fans? Of course not. They run to the corner and celebrate. Just like Bale did at Old Trafford and any other player who scores in an away game does in front of home fans.

Not to mention the guy has just scored a goal that takes his country to the final of the major Championships. Plus they played 2 majorly tough games. But he should hold back his emotions and not celebrate because the crowd are hostile and celebrating a goal is seen as provoking when they are nutters?! Ridiculous.

All 4 sides were full of Serbian fans. Where was he supposed to celebrate? You cannot honestly say to players that in some grounds if you score you better not celebrate that much because the crowds are known to be nutters. It is the job of the police to control the nutters in the crowd and let the players get on with playing football.

[SammyKojoe]

It was the goal celebration. I'm not condoning what the Serbs did, but you have to admit it was pretty stupid to celebrate like that in front of a bunch of nutters.

Be honest Dave, you're watching QPR but in the wrong end. If we score, would you celebrate or would you wait? Common sense innit?

Surely it is also common sense to know you cannot compare a player scoring a goal and celebrating it to a fan celebrating a goal in the wrong end?

[Bluehoop]

Yes, that's exactly it. Now the Serbs can say, the monkey chants were not racist in nature and the violence happened because England players celebrated in front of their fans. It gives them ammunition to use in their defence, which if we'd played it smarter then they couldn't put up a smokescreen for their disgusting behaviour.

There's a defence I wouldn't have thought of. Seriously, that cannot stand up unless they were watching the game in a zoo and could suggest they were conversing with the monkeys in the f'ing cage.
I also have to say I am amazed at Parker's take on it. I can understand that he may have dealt with it in that way back in his time. For what ever reason the attitude to racism then wasn't as high profile - nothing he could say or do was going to stop it, so he just took it on the chin, blocked it out and got on with his game. He shouldn't have had to do that then and to advise a player in the modern era (where allegedly there is a zero tolerance approach) to deal with it in the same way is patently wrong in my opinion. It's almost like Parker saying, it's not right but we can't stop it so just put your nuts on a trolley and deal with it lad!