Is an England flag with QPR written on it offensive ?

[vanhoop]

Try telling a paddy he's not allowed in the pub because he's wearing a shamrock on paddys day in London.kin joke,I'm celebrating st georges day in Belfast next year,I'm sure ill be welcomed with open arms.literally

[SouthCoastRanger]

Half the problem now is too many people bring up the EDL into everything, The situation on Saturday had absolutely nothing to do with the EDL so really shouldn't have even been brought into the conversation. Yeah the EDL go about with a george cross, sing england songs but just because you have a george cross doesn't mean your involved with the English Defence League. Don't want to get involved in a argument or anything but i do find it funny how if your proud to be english it always gets made into a problem.

[Johnnykc]

It's because we are uncomfortable as a nation with perceived displays of nationalism (understandably given our recent history). Unfortunately there is an association with extreme right-wing groups (although this is more true of the Union Flag). Recent years have seen the EDL used it for their purposes, and again the majority are very uncomfortable with them, especially as they are tightly linked to football hooligans, another set of people that the general public dislike massively.

It tends to be more acceptable when there's a major tournament on and a larger number of the public are displaying it. The Union flag has been everywhere this year and last with no negative connotations at all, because of the sheer number of people displaying.

Pubs are a difficult one, because they tend to get touchy when they've had problems in the past. There was a stink kicked up a while back when a pub denied service to a few soldiers in uniform prior to them going on to a funeral. Now I used to drink in Windsor, and I know that pubs there often blanket barred squaddies, because there was a tendency for them to start fights and other generally expensive problems. This does not mean all squaddies will start problems, it's just that some pubs have decided to err on the side of their profits. If the pub you were denied access to had had problems with football fans, or anyone else with flags (or problems on previous St George's days), then they may have decided that they're better off stopping people with the flag. It seems ridiculous but these places aren't going to lose your custom lightly, they'll be a reason.

St Patricks day is associated with everyone having a jolly old time, and drinking loads wearing silly wigs and requiring a shamrock on the head of their Guiness. St George's day recently has become associated (rightly or wrongly), more with angry Facebook posts about not being allowed to celebrate it, than with people doing anything about it. Vicious circle unfortunately.

The Jubilee and the Olympics seem to have brought back a happier version of national pride, rather than the angry defiant version, and maybe if there is a concentrated effort, next April 23rd could see a more universal celebration.

Of course there is always going to be people who take the very laudable intentions of political correctness and go too far, but these are definitely few and far between. They all seem to get highlighted, understandably but when is 'and they all got along swimmingly' going to be of interest to the news?

Well observed and intelligent post..

[DeepcutHoop]

Half the problem now is too many people bring up the EDL into everything, The situation on Saturday had absolutely nothing to do with the EDL so really shouldn't have even been brought into the conversation. Yeah the EDL go about with a george cross, sing england songs but just because you have a george cross doesn't mean your involved with the English Defence League. Don't want to get involved in a argument or anything but i do find it funny how if your proud to be english it always gets made into a problem.

I was very much saying that the EDL, and the other angry nationalists spoil it for everyone.

I certainly haven't accused anyone on Saturday of being EDL, nor am I saying being proud of being English is a bad thing.

I'm saying that the public has a tainted view because of the idiots. I'm not sure that there's an easy solution to it.

[SouthCoastRanger]

I was very much saying that the EDL, and the other angry nationalists spoil it for everyone.

I certainly haven't accused anyone on Saturday of being EDL, nor am I saying being proud of being English is a bad thing.

I'm saying that the public has a tainted view because of the idiots. I'm not sure that there's an easy solution to it.

No wasn't aiming anything at yourself just saying that in general it does seem when you express your proud to be English there's always someone who tarnishes you a racist. Just have to let people like the EDL get on with there business, there never going to go away.

[DeepcutHoop]

No wasn't aiming anything at yourself just saying that in general it does seem when you express your proud to be English there's always someone who tarnishes you a racist. Just have to let people like the EDL get on with there business, there never going to go away.

Absolutely. Ignoring the idiots on both sides would be a start.

If someone says 'You're a racist if you have an England flag' their opinion is tarnished by their idiocy.
If someone says 'Everyone says you're a racist if you have an England flag' then they are equally idiotic.

Most people are sensible enough to realise that the vast majority of people are fine if you want to raise a flag, or down a couple of beers for St George. They may even join you, even if it's generally not the English thing to celebrate St George's Day, as long as it's done with a grin, and not an angry middle finger up to the imaginary hoards that are trying to stop you.

[SouthCoastRanger]

Absolutely. Ignoring the idiots on both sides would be a start.

If someone says 'You're a racist if you have an England flag' their opinion is tarnished by their idiocy.
If someone says 'Everyone says you're a racist if you have an England flag' then they are equally idiotic.

Most people are sensible enough to realise that the vast majority of people are fine if you want to raise a flag, or down a couple of beers for St George. They may even join you, even if it's generally not the English thing to celebrate St George's Day, as long as it's done with a grin, and not an angry middle finger up to the imaginary hoards that are trying to stop you.

I agree.

I do wonder if some clubs are under pressure since the English Defence League have been established. I know it's a tad different but i got a pal who attends the EDL demo's and he took a flag he had to a brighton game, It was a george cross with a seagull on it and EDL written on the top corner. He actually received a ban from BHA not allowing him to enter the amex for life.

[DeepcutHoop]

I agree.

I do wonder if some clubs are under pressure since the English Defence League have been established. I know it's a tad different but i got a pal who attends the EDL demo's and he took a flag he had to a brighton game, It was a george cross with a seagull on it and EDL written on the top corner. He actually received a ban from BHA not allowing him to enter the amex for life.

That's amazingly harsh if it was just for the flag.

I dislike the EDL greatly but I'm not sure that their initials on a flag warrant a ban of any sort. It doesn't even warrant removal of the flag IMO, although I can see that a club may not want to be associated with it.

Out of interest has anyone checked to see if any other clubs had issues this weekend?

[SouthCoastRanger]

That's amazingly harsh if it was just for the flag.

I dislike the EDL greatly but I'm not sure that their initials on a flag warrant a ban of any sort. It doesn't even warrant removal of the flag IMO, although I can see that a club may not want to be associated with it.

Out of interest has anyone checked to see if any other clubs had issues this weekend?

Especially as Brighton has a rather large population of people against the english defence league. Anyway to be fair QPR as a club was probably just on high alert saturday being chelsea in town etc, the whole JT and AF situation and the fact that it was a local derby they were probably worried about trouble inside the ground so the stewards were probably told to stop everything you would get away with against someone like sunderland or everton.

[loneranger]

Seems like the edl are the new bogey men then.

[willis1980]

that whole brighton thing has me in stitches, so by banning him theyre discriminating against people when they probably portray themselves as a tolerant club. how many people wouldve spotted those 3 letters and how many people wouldve been bothered enough to complain. it seems a little ridiculous tbh. i have nothing to do with the EDL but i do find that the country on the whole is a bit soft, people turn up to marches dressed as suicide bombers, people demonstrate at soldiers funerals and people spit on poppy wreaths and nothing is done about it. however, exercise your freedom of expression in conjunction with a st georges flag and youre persona non grata. In germany of all places there appears to be no issue with their national flag or identity, there was a point in the early 90s and late 80s were certain sections of society may have preferred not to display their national flag but these days are long gone. too much is made of not upsetting people in this country, when youll probably find the individuals the government et al think would be offend in reality arent at all. if stuff like this continues what chance is there of ever reclaiming the flag??

[QPR Richard]

Some years ago, when Martin Allen was manager of Brentford, he wanted the COSG banned from the ground because he considered it a racist symbol.

Load of cobblers. We English are seen as a right-wing bunch of bloody Nazis, and for what? Because we happen to take pride in our country, like every other nation in the world.

There is a genuine attempt by the British to destroy England as a nation. Don't believe me? England has no parliament, and is ruled from Westminster by the British. Scotland's got a parliament, and Wales and NI have assemblies. In 2004, Labour attempted to regionalise England by creating EU regional assemblies. Fortunately, the Geordies rejected theirs in a referendum so Labour gave up on the idea. The threat to England's existence is very real, and we should NEVER stop displaying our national flag.

The next time a steward tries something like this, do not remove your flags until they call a senior steward and ask him under what ruling it has to be removed. Ask them to SPECIFICALLY give you the details of the ruling. Remind them that you are displaying official club merchandise. If they still insist you remove it because it's offensive, tell them that the English are recognised as a nation under the 2011 census, and you will be reporting them to the club hierarchy and the Equality and Human Rights Commission, and take their names.

I would also suggest you take some photos and tweet Tony, Amit, Phil and Ian while it's going on, with a line saying you have been told to remove official club merchandise from the ground by such and such steward.

[DeepcutHoop]

I was with you right up until the full stop after cobblers.

'We English' are not seen as Nazis. The only ones that are even compared to them are the far right groups who are not just patriotic but downright nationalist and angry about their patriotism.

When was the last time their was an English Parliament, out of interest?

I'm not getting into the whole venn diagrams of the relationship between British/English again. It very clear that you view the British as a different group of people to yourself. I also believe that your views on the destruction of England as a nation is unwarranted, and a little paranoid. However you certainly should be allowed to display your St Georges cross wherever you see fit tbf. I have certainly hung my one (with QPR across the middle) out of my windows during the major tournaments.

I fully agree that the stewards removing the flag should absolutely know the regulations that they are enforcing, or at the very least be able to refer you to a supervisor who does.

We still don't know why the flags have been removed, have the club responded to anyone yet?

[Johnnykc]

Some years ago, when Martin Allen was manager of Brentford, he wanted the COSG banned from the ground because he considered it a racist symbol.

Load of cobblers. We English are seen as a right-wing bunch of bloody Nazis, and for what? Because we happen to take pride in our country, like every other nation in the world.

There is a genuine attempt by the British to destroy England as a nation. Don't believe me? England has no parliament, and is ruled from Westminster by the British. Scotland's got a parliament, and Wales and NI have assemblies. In 2004, Labour attempted to regionalise England by creating EU regional assemblies. Fortunately, the Geordies rejected theirs in a referendum so Labour gave up on the idea. The threat to England's existence is very real, and we should NEVER stop displaying our national flag.

The next time a steward tries something like this, do not remove your flags until they call a senior steward and ask him under what ruling it has to be removed. Ask them to SPECIFICALLY give you the details of the ruling. Remind them that you are displaying official club merchandise. If they still insist you remove it because it's offensive, tell them that the English are recognised as a nation under the 2011 census, and you will be reporting them to the club hierarchy and the Equality and Human Rights Commission, and take their names.

I would also suggest you take some photos and tweet Tony, Amit, Phil and Ian while it's going on, with a line saying you have been told to remove official club merchandise from the ground by such and such steward.

Jesus....chill out man...they removed a flag...maybe they won't at the west ham game.....maybe it was just a couple of jobsworths......

Perhaps someone should give the club a chance to explain the stewards actions....

[vanhoop]

Very good post Richard