A thought on Stoke and football

[Rich]

I coach under 8's football and we play from the back so that the boys learn to play football. Approx 25% of sides we play practice the same methods. Therefore most youth football teams are taught to win at all costs and therefore the future of English football has been in downfall.

Recently however the FA have changed the rules and from 2013/14 non competitive football is extended past U9 age to encourage coaches to teach kids how to play football. It is improving. Kids will always want to win and thats fine but coaches need to keep pressure off so boys (in my case) learn the great game.

Anyway, I digress. My question. With all the focus on this by Sir Trev and his crew begs the question " how can Stoke be allowed to continue playing in the top flight"? it's a serious question if you think about what they represent & how open they are for youth to watch.

[Olly]

Sorry, don't understand how playing from the back means winning at all costs. What does 'how open they are for youth to watch' mean?. In some other countries, kids are taught skills first before anything else, and that's how it should be here. When my son began kicking a ball about, I encouraged him to use both feet instead of being one-footed, and it payed dividends later in games as he grew up as a park player.

[stainrodisalegend]

Interesting post rich. funnily enough you have answered a question i was talking about with my brother on the way to the match. was saying we have all read about barcelona training sessions etc and was wondering whether English clubs - at all levels - are now following those kind of techniques or whether it still is more like the bloke in the John Smith advert booting the ball as hard and high as he can shouting "'ave it!"
V glad you teach it the right way. Having watched Stoke there are still plenty of teams in the dark ages even in the Prem league. I do understand about playing to your strengths but they have gone out and bought players for many millions of pounds. You wd have thought they wd now raise their expectations but instead it was like watching Watford circa 1982.

[paulmason]

The problem with English sports, is that from an early age, kids are taught that winning is not important and it's "it's not the winning but the thing part that counts", this was deliberately designed so the fat, lazy kids who are net very good are not embarrassed by talented kids.

Why is it in academic terms, if billy or johnny are really clever in maybe, English, Maths or the sciences, they are pushed on at school to take their exams early, but in sporting terms, they are handcuffed.

The suggestions by brooking and southgate are pointless and do nothing positive for youth football, apart from reinforce the dont worry if you loose message as how can you play footbal where goals don't count for nothing. Positive things would be 9 a side and no offside until u16, not the nonsense they are peddling.

[MattyRangers]

The problem with English sports, is that from an early age, kids are taught that winning is not important and it's "it's not the winning but the thing part that counts", this was deliberately designed so the fat, lazy kids who are net very good are not embarrassed by talented kids.

Why is it in academic terms, if billy or johnny are really clever in maybe, English or the sciences, they are pushed on at school to take their exams early, but in sporting terms, they are handcuffed.

The suggestions by brooking and southgate are pointless and do nothing positive for youth football, apart from reinforce the dont worry if you loose message. Positive things would be 9 a side and no offside until u16, not the nonsense they are peddling.

Superb post Mason. Totally agree with your 1st sentance especially.

All competativeness has been taken out of kids sports which is total bull$hit if you ask me. As you say, its done so as to not upset the fat kids that are more interested in which doughnut to have on lunch than in playing sport and losing their kid tit$.

This sort of attitude at grass roots stems all the way up and reflects in our National sides poor efforts in competitions. IMO anyway.

[Factamondo]

is there a 'right' or 'wrong' way in the laws of association football???....too be honest you do what is neccessary to win using what you have at your disposal....the free flowing arsenal side today....that win nothing.................or the defensive ironfisted side of adams/bould etc that won plenty????.......ask the fans and in an ideal world theyd love a barcelona esq winning team but id settle for a video nasty 1-0 next week all day long!

[stainrodisalegend]

Agree non-competitive sports is a bit of a nonsense but you can't blame that for the lack of technique in english football. if anything we have had too much blood and guts, typified by that picture of terry butcher with blood pouring out of his head. that's fine, but it only gets you so far. as i think rich was pointing out, for 20 odd years now it has painfully apparent that there is a massive skills deficit between our players and many continental ones.our young players are taught to hoof it out of defence to "play it safe" whereas on the continent they are encouraged to hold on to it. The consequences are there for all to see. look how a relatively average spanish team were able to completely humiliate united, our league champions, by their pass and go football that no english team can match.

this is what we need to be instilling in young players imo.

[qblockoompah]

Too much emphasis is put on fitness for kids. Should be given the ball from start of training to then end, not running to the other side of the field to get your coach a leaf!

[paulmason]

Stainrod, you are making the fatal mistake of thinking sunday football teams should be run the same COE's and Academies.

Clubs do not teach kick and run (you should go and watch them like i do) but dads do on Sundays and taking away three points for a win won't change.

Also, if a child does not know how to win or know how to a accept defeat, how will he/she succeed in life?

[paulmason]

Too much emphasis is put on fitness for kids. Should be given the ball from start of training to then end, not running to the other side of the field to get your coach a leaf!

Why do the clubs look for fast, athletic players then ?

[qblockoompah]

You can be fast and athletic without out running round muddy fields for an hour Paul. Kids at 5 years old do not need fitness training, they need to learn how to control a ball, use both feet and to pass between themselves. Endless running is going to do nothing for then

[paulmason]

You can be fast and athletic without out running round muddy fields for an hour Paul. Kids at 5 years old do not need fitness training, they need to learn how to control a ball, use both feet and to pass between themselves. Endless running is going to do nothing for then

Again that is your typical dads training methods, not the clubs.......

I could show you 10 drills where you do nothing but run, ........ with the ball though.

[stainrodisalegend]

Stainrod, you are making the fatal mistake of thinking sunday football teams should be run the same COE's and Academies.

Clubs do not teach kick and run (you should go and watch them like i do) but dads do on Sundays and taking away three points for a win won't change.

Also, if a child does not know how to win or know how to a accept defeat, how will he/she succeed in life?

Fair enough am sure you have seen more than I have of how young people are taught football, though it is notable that spain has something like 10 times more fifa registered/ trained coaches than we have. im not against competitiveness. the barcelona youth team are given 11 seconds to get the ball back and are fined if they dont get it. that's highly competitive. but it is competitive about developing skills. it wd be a mistake to fall into the daily mail trap of just saying "we need more competitive sport" without stopping to think about what type of competitive sport. as others have said, needs to be about teaching technique, not blood and guts.

[qblockoompah]

Again that is your typical dads training methods, not the clubs.......

I could show you 10 drills where you do nothing but run, ........ with the ball though.

Don't need you to show me Paul, I weren't saying stand still. What I'm saying is kids these days and days gone by are not given enough ball time, too much shuttle runs, too much field running and road running, during football training they should have the ball at their feet the whole time, that's all I'm saying mate.

Fortunately my sons team/coach do just this, the whole emphasis is put on having the ball, and using space. It's all good fun fr the kids and also it's very competitive, which I think is great. Kids need that hunger to win and be the best

[paulmason]

The biggest improvement to youth football (11 +)would be to take away offside, as this would kill dead all animosity, caused by a cheating parent hell bent on winning.

IMO, dodgy offside decisions contribute to over 90% of problems at kids football, caused by parents. Taking that away from the game is common sense, but alas Brooking and Southgate don't have amy.

Ask yourself if goals don't matter, why does offside ?