Racism ?

[vespa]

Things get said on the football pitch at every level ,just to wind the opposition up , always have ,always will. Terry isn`t clever enough to realise that rascist comments on national tv ,when your the England captain is not a good idea.( Not that i`m saying its ever a good idea, before anyone jumps on my case)
All i`m saying is he`s probably just guilty of being pretty bloody stupid ,and not a cross burning racist.

[roose]

The states call them pakis too. George bush did on tv but they don't mean it a a hate word like the English do.
As for the Welsh they don't actually shafted sheep it is a **** take weather nasty it not. So not racist.
If you was to hate a country like Wales, France or Germany for instance that does not make you a racist the word for that is xenophobia not racist. Too hate cos of the colour of ones skin no matter where they are from is wrong.

If someone said point out in a crowd and you said the black fella that is ok but if you said the black **** makes a whole world of difference.

Try going up to a black guy call him a **** then a black **** you will see the difference.

[acricketer]

Good point . The fact that c*** would have been enough is being missed by some. Adding the word 'black' to the insult shows that it is also meant as a slur.

[roose]

Good point . The fact that c*** would have been enough is being missed by some. Adding the word 'black' to the insult shows that it is also meant as a slur.

Yes that is the point that I was getting at all be it long winded

[QPR1976]

very good points and well made by Silvercue and Roose.

I did try to take Terry out of the equation for financial, England captain and emotional reasons, but failed.

Anyway, I've learnt alot from this debate.
I hope, no one has taken offense at my raising the question or holds it against me in future posts.

Thanks to all.

[indianalondon]

very good points and well made by Silvercue and Roose.

I did try to take Terry out of the equation for financial, England captain and emotional reasons, but failed.

Anyway, I've learnt alot from this debate.
I hope, no one has taken offense at my raising the question or holds it against me in future posts.

Thanks to all.

Not at all mate, its a good debate to have and you handled it it style

[1cliveallen]

if it were say paddy kenny who;s alledged to have called anton a black c### and his defence was "anton is black and in my opinion a c###" would he still be considered a racist by posters on this board?posted for debate purpose only so please dont jump all over me for being crass,closet racist,pig ignorant etc

[SM3 Ranger]

roose - I think most people do understand that.

But there are degrees.

For example, large groups of our fans call the Cardiff fans - sheep s.haggers. That is racist according to the very acts people are now throwing about to justify their point.

We will one day get to a point where it will be deemed as racially offensive to call some one a Gypsy, *****,dirty northerner etc.

If I am at work and someone asks me who someone in a crowd is...am I allowed to say - he's the black one. Yes I am. Maybe not tomorrow though.

Also - ref your point on the word ####. That is used to describe Pakistanis in Australia all the time. Doesn't make them all racist. Context.

PS - not defending JT here.

EXACTLYCONTEXT
someone cuts you up in a car in the heat of the moment you notice he is ginger so you call him a ginger c*** likewise if they were bald or fat the same insult could apply personally i cannot see the difference between this and calling some a black c***(before i get shot down i am white but have plenty of black mates who if they were being racially abused i would have no hesitation in stepping in on there behalf)
Much as i despise JT, Anton is black and at the time maybe JT thought he was a c*** ....heat of the moment stuff that has been blown out of proportion............. just my humble opinion

[northampton rs]

It seems to me the only group of people that can't use the race card are White English born. Tell me i'm wrong?

[QPR_NW10]

calling someone a "fukcing black cutn" to me is a racist term. it's the fact that they're putting the two together - as if they're in the same bracket.
You wouldn't call someone a "fukcing cutn, who's also wearing blue socks" if you're not looking to insult that particular part of them.
*IF* JT said it, then he is using both words in a derogatory context.

Forget the context - the context is not an excuse. "Oh, it was a big game, i ha d a lot on my mind" etc is not excuse.
Imagine someone in a rush back from work to see his dying mother on her death bed - runs over a 12 yo boy through careless driving. Think we would take that into context? no, it would be deemed as manslaughter. (massive over-comparisson I know, but just getting point across)

[brightonr]

So, is it equally as offensive to call someone a fat ****. (Matty - maybe you can comment?)

Well Matty, are you going to answer?

And if you do, is it the 3 or 4 letter word that you would take exception to?

In your eyes, now I'll always be a racist. Wrongly, I'm IN my Avatar, you decide which one !

This is possibly the most pertinent point. And quite how one can assume the colour of someones skin from an honest question is a different question altogether. Personally, I still wouldn't know. Reminds me of a bloke who called George Galloway one night to complain about his use of the word "Jew". Galloway's reaction to being accused of working out he was Jewish for no reason at all was classic radio.

Just found link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO68iEIfPfw

[Bluehoop]

How often do those of us on here that are white get called c**ts? Or even waynekers, pillocks, idiots or any other names? I'm sure we have all received some sort of insult at some time. How often is the insult pre-fixed with the word white? Precisely!

[stainrodisalegend]

Ok, with tin hat on and hyperthetically speaking -
Take the fact it's Chelski, the odious John Terry and against QPR out of the equation.
Perhaps consider if it were Barton, or Derry or a different sport all together, say Anderson against the West Indies.

Is a sportsperson, in the heat of the game, when all appears to be going against them, really a 'racist' for saying 'black ****' ?
I repeat, in the heat of the game.

I know it's wrong, stupid, offensive, shows a lack of inteligence and class, BUT
Does that make him or anyone else a 'racist' ?

Fascism still exists throughout the World (italy, Germany, Poland, England -EDL, BM, the KKK in the US, etc) - ALL DISPICABLE RACISTS !

But does any one individual deserve to be held under the same banner, for which 'could' be construed as banter or a throw away comment.

'Colourful' Language like that is used in most pubs on most days, with no offense meant or taken (agreed it's sometimes difficult to tell)
Blacks call themselves it or the 'n' word.

How many of us get 'joke' texts about the latest disaster in Pakistan, Africa and not only laugh, smile but forward it to others.
Many more than will openly admit it. I've one today ! It ends with 'Terry's chocolates'.
I'm not saying it's right, but to not acknowledge it happens is ignorant.

Anyway, open for debate hopefully, and for the record, I don't consider myself a racist, I prefer to treat and respect everyone as an equal until they do otherwise to me.
That said, I hate the French, and think Pakistan is a cheating liability in World Cricket and frankly not worth the effort in pandering to them.

Yes, if you call someoene a "black ****" that is racist, obviously, and should be punished. Whether you are a racist in the rest of your life is not what is being judged, it is your behaviour at that particular moment on the pitch. Some people really do have to realise this is 2011.

[Factamondo]

It seems to me the only group of people that can't use the race card are White English born. Tell me i'm wrong?

make you right there old chap!

[stainrodisalegend]

EXACTLYCONTEXT
someone cuts you up in a car in the heat of the moment you notice he is ginger so you call him a ginger c*** likewise if they were bald or fat the same insult could apply personally i cannot see the difference between this and calling some a black c***(before i get shot down i am white but have plenty of black mates who if they were being racially abused i would have no hesitation in stepping in on there behalf)
Much as i despise JT, Anton is black and at the time maybe JT thought he was a c*** ....heat of the moment stuff that has been blown out of proportion............. just my humble opinion

Calling someone ginger or fat is totally different and shows complete ignorance of history. There is obvious sensitivity about skin colour stretching back centuries - ever heard of the black slave trade, or of signs that used to appear in pubs in the 1950s "no blacks, no Irish, no dogs". Until the mid seventies, when it was made illegal, black people were routinely denied jobs PURELY BECAUSE THEY WERE BLACK. In the eighties black players had bananas thrown at them. Even today there are large numbers of cases of black and asian people being beaten up and abused because of the colour of their skin. If ginger people had been similarly persecuted I'm sure there would be laws against drawing attention to the colour of their hair - but there isn't. Use your loaf, plse...