The ref got it right on all three penalties

[klonk]

first one was technically a penalty, but don't hold your breath when you see an opposing team do the same to one of our players - they're very rarely given (and this is the basis of the outrage).

second one - penalty all day every day. plenty of time to get hand out the way - didn't do it quickly enough. again, next time you see that happen in our penalty box, there will be a penalty.

third one - not sure. i wouldn't have said so myself, but, i've seen them given. hutton moved his hand upward at the wrong moment for balance... certainly could be construed as maximising his size to bloc the cross as easily as for balance. maybe if we were man utd and it was 0-0 the ref might have crumbled.

[Olly]

first one was technically a penalty, but don't hold your breath when you see an opposing team do the same to one of our players - they're very rarely given (and this is the basis of the outrage).

I'm saying as a seperate argument, that if refs started giving penalties for shirt tugging, it would stop immediately. There is no legitimate reason whatsoever for having the need to do it

[James1979]

His hands were already there for balance, not for ball stopping

Agree with you on their pen and the last potential pen. However, this argument that hands are there for balance is wrong. Header was made from way back and struck the defenders arm, so a pen. Whether he put his arm up deliberately is not an argument. If it was point blank then fine but this was some way off and a blatent pen. The path of the ball changed by hitting his arm, so a pen.

[Gerryhatrick]

Its a debate that doesn't have a correct answer to all 3 situation. The only opinion that matters is one person, the ref, a decision made in a split second, which can cost millions of pounds, to decide a win, lose or draw, relegation or promotion. And yet we have the technology to change it and to avoid all these bad decisions by one man. If we don't want the video replay technology we will never have the perfect ref.

[Jamie]

Some hardcore trolling going on here.

Dermot Gallagher spent 15 years as a PL ref & 8 years as a FIFA ref and has
stated on SSN that Villa's wasn't, and our first appeal was.

Good enough for me.

[QPRDave]

Some hardcore trolling going on here.

Dermot Gallagher spent 15 years as a PL ref & 8 years as a FIFA ref and has
stated on SSN that Villa's wasn't, and our first appeal was.

Good enough for me.

And me.

[Quaz]

Some hardcore trolling going on here.

Dermot Gallagher spent 15 years as a PL ref & 8 years as a FIFA ref and has
stated on SSN that Villa's wasn't, and our first appeal was.

Good enough for me.

this

[Bluehoop]

Some hardcore trolling going on here.

Dermot Gallagher spent 15 years as a PL ref & 8 years as a FIFA ref and has
stated on SSN that Villa's wasn't, and our first appeal was.

Good enough for me.

Me too.

And this twaddle about arms being there for balance............my foot was there for standing on so it's wrong to give a foul because the other bloke tripped over it whilst it was just there being stood on

[theblackmafia.]

All three were penalties; why?

1. Regardless of the fact that Agboniwhatever would not have reached the ball, Traore pulled his shirt delibritaley trying to slow him down/put him off balance, so it's a foul/penalty - although he should have been sent off.

2. The defenders arm was by his side but as the ball struck him his arm movement was backward and sideways - to flick the ball away. It may have been a small movement but it was enough to stop the ball going in and if you look at his face when he is running away he knows he just got away with it.

3. All this nonsense about balance. Yes you use your arms for balance, but if your arms then increase your body mass, a penalty or free-kick (dependant on location of pitch) should be awarded if the ball strikes your arm/hand.

It's quite simple to me, but then again I am simple.

If a player attempts to chest the ball and the ball catches his arm (using his arm for balance) then a free-kick is always awarded. SWP had the ball bounce up and hit his arm (arm out for balance) and a free-kick was awarded. The only reason it was not awarded was because it was in the penalty area.

Referee's are ****.

[qprfan4ever]

ok this is my take on proceedings:

First of all their penalty was as softer penalty as u will c all season,ok so Traore tugs his shirt slightly but Agbo ll o c kwh or e goes down like there was a sniper in the crowd,but as u say he had the right if he felt something.None of their supporters or players appealed so 4 me no pen.

Our 1st non penalty was an absolute disgrace that it wasn't given as i have never seen a more blatant handball as that,as someone said u could c the guilt on SHi ttons face and as for u Greengrass saying he tried to move his arm away is pure c ra p as u blatantly c ball hit his arm and he flicks arm outwards to make sure it goes away from goal.

As for the 2nd non penalty how his hands were that far away from his body being so close to Tommy Smith is ridiculous,he knew exactly what he was doing to prevent a cross coming in

So theirs no for me and our two should've been given and im not being biased at all that is my take from seeing replayed over and over again.

[Kit]

To say the Ref got all 3 decisions correct is quite ridiculous and once I heard Adrian Durham on Talksport say the Ref got the decisions correct, I am even more convinced he got all 3 wrong.
Villa's pen I can see how he gave a pen BUT he will now be giving 2 pens every game if he is consistent. Our first pen appeal was absolutely stonewall, no one can say anything different, it would be given 9/10 times, ours being the one that wasn't given.
Our second pen appeal, whilst not quite as blatant as the first, I seem to remember a very similar incident at Fratton Park last season in the last minute and yes it was given, much to Liam Lawrences annoyance.
Poor poor Refereeing yesterday but have a feeling it wont be the last poor performance we see this season, just hope it doesn't happen in our winnable games.

[qprozzie]

Greengrass, why would he move his arm away from his body when the ball was going past his hip. Naturally he moves it towards the ball - therefore penalty. Away from body or towards body is not the issue it is whether he deliberately played the ball with his hand/arm - and leaving your arm still can still be interpreted as doing just that.
And if you say that he didn't play at it you could argue that SWP didn't handball earlier when the ball bounced up and hit his arm - but no complaints there it was a deffo free kick even though you could argue it wasn't deliberate which under strict interpretation of the rules it needs to be.

[James1979]

To say the Ref got all 3 decisions correct is quite ridiculous and once I heard Adrian Durham on Talksport say the Ref got the decisions correct, I am even more convinced he got all 3 wrong.
Villa's pen I can see how he gave a pen BUT he will now be giving 2 pens every game if he is consistent. Our first pen appeal was absolutely stonewall, no one can say anything different, it would be given 9/10 times, ours being the one that wasn't given.
Our second pen appeal, whilst not quite as blatant as the first, I seem to remember a very similar incident at Fratton Park last season in the last minute and yes it was given, much to Liam Lawrences annoyance.
Poor poor Refereeing yesterday but have a feeling it wont be the last poor performance we see this season, just hope it doesn't happen in our winnable games.

I've actually come round to thinking that first one is a pen. Now I think it's

1) Pen...but is very soft
2) Pen (not even open for debate, hit arm and too far away to use ball to hand stuff)
3) No Pen (did move hand to it but too close to the player)

[Olly]

Greengrass, why would he move his arm away from his body when the ball was going past his hip. Naturally he moves it towards the ball - therefore penalty. Away from body or towards body is not the issue it is whether he deliberately played the ball with his hand/arm - and leaving your arm still can still be interpreted as doing just that.
And if you say that he didn't play at it you could argue that SWP didn't handball earlier when the ball bounced up and hit his arm - but no complaints there it was a deffo free kick even though you could argue it wasn't deliberate which under strict interpretation of the rules it needs to be.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26092011/58/premier-league-warnock-unleashes-referee-rant.html

If you look at the slowmo, at point of ball impact, he is still moving his arm inwards. Then his arm moves outwards after the ball has deflected away.

Every incident was obviously controversial, but I'm saying the ref was within his rights on the decisions he gave, according to rule interpretations.

[James1979]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/260920...eree-rant.html

If you look at the slowmo, at point of ball impact, he is still moving his arm inwards. Then his arm moves outwards after the ball has deflected away.

Every incident was obviously controversial, but I'm saying the ref was within his rights on the decisions he gave, according to rule interpretations.

If he hadn't moved his hand inwards, his hand would have missed the ball. Derry's header was some 10 yards away, from point of header and whilst ball is travelling, he moves his hand into path of ball and then changes path of the ball. So using the rules, it's a pen.