Case for a new stadium/Swansea comparison

[Gerryhatrick]

Unfortunately we have neither the money or room to expand...so we are stuck in limbo...

Exactly.
and it's been like this for 20 years. Problem is, the natural course is for us to continue to struggle financially, and consequently drop down into lower divisions, and then for potentially ambitous clubs like Orient and Brentford to come steaming past us. Scary.

[W12_Ranger]

Exactly.
and it's been like this for 20 years. Problem is, the natural course is for us to continue to struggle financially, and consequently drop down into lower divisions, and then for potentially ambitous clubs like Orient and Brentford to come steaming past us. Scary.

....and its not going to change and this what people need to understand.

The only option I believe there is, which would also require a buy in from the local council is to build a ground with Fulham of which I don't think they need to do.

[Nodge70]

I'm still pissing myself at the thought of building a new stadium, with hotel complex, training facilities, shopping centre a 5 min drive from the M40/M25 intersection.

I live out this way......Have you seen it around here, every house, shop, billboard has a poster saying 'No to HS2'...maybe your land economics, geography and financial projections didn't extend that far from Essex but I have a slight hunch your pie in the sky idea might be met with slight local opposition.

Please, let's not be sarcastic or dismissive. Everyone has an opinion and I respect yours even if disagree with it. I'm sure Reading fans once thought the Madjeski was "pie in the sky" too. Everything has a beginning.

I lived out that way for the best part of thirty years. There are plenty of sites ripe for redevelopment. A football stadium with an enabling development (this is the important bit) attached is very very different from HS2 running through the Chiltern Hills and the Tory heartlands of Wendover and Amersham. I've done enough spade work on stadium developments to have a decent idea as to what is and what isn't achieveable or viable. Hillingdon and (especially) Hounslow Boroughs would bend over backwards for the kind of investment such a development would attract. Local residents (as they did at Ashburton Grove and during the redevelopment of Twickenham) would kick up a fuss, but I'm sure, ultimately would sail through planning.

[W12_Ranger]

Please, let's not be sarcastic or dismissive. Everyone has an opinion and I respect yours even if disagree with it. I'm sure Reading fans once thought the Madjeski was "pie in the sky" too. Everything has a beginning.

I lived out that way for the best part of thirty years. There are plenty of sites ripe for redevelopment. A football stadium with an enabling development (this is the important bit) attached is very very different from HS2 running through the Chiltern Hills and the Tory heartlands of Wendover and Amersham. I've done enough spade work on stadium developments to have a decent idea as to what is and what isn't achieveable or viable. Hillingdon and (especially) Hounslow Boroughs would bend over backwards for the kind of investment such a development would attract. Local residents (as they did at Ashburton Grove and during the redevelopment of Twickenham) would kick up a fuss, but I'm sure, ultimately would sail through planning.

What sites then, lets have a look lets not just suggest these loaction's exist I want to know exactly where?

Lets conduct our own feasibility study.....also I want to see where these sites are located with respect to infrastructure as your talking about moving a football ground with the best transport connections around to a site located along one of the busiest dual carriageway/motorways in the country with a potential slap to any bus or train routes.

Local residents would also kick up a massive fuss, no one wants to see a football stadium built on their door step...I also see major comparisons with any construction project as ultimately the impact on the env't and residents is the same.

[Gerryhatrick]

Linford Christie Stadium ?
Wormwood Scrubbs poss spare land ?

[pblock]

This one's been done before but here's my take for what it's worth.

To the people who will give the example of a Reading, Brighton, Swansea, Sunderland I would agree that new grounds have seen the attendances rise but it isn't quite as simple as that. The clubs above especially Swansea and Sunderland have large catchment areas with very little else around them, land prices are also considerably lower than anywhere in the South East / Greater London area. Brightons ground seems to be good but I would be interested in how much debt Brighton currently have due to the stadium or do they indeed own it outright? Reading have a good catchment area and bought the land for the ground before the massive boom in property over the last 10 or so years. They also own Madjeski a hell of a lot of money and again I would be interested to know if they own the ground or if he owns the ground or indeed another 3rd party.

Some have suggested moving to somewhere down the A40 and build some ground / training ground complex. Say this was an avenue we looked to explore realistically how much is this whole project going to cost? If you factor in Cost of land, cost of drawing up plans, gaining planning consent, potentially having to build new access roads, or other transport related items, cost of building the thing etc I don't think you'd get much change out say £150 million maybe £200 million. We currently have essentially a debenture of £10 million (the Amulya / Sarita loan) on a ground worth approx £25 million so essentially we would have £15 million after we sold Loftus Road, where does the rest of it come from? Before people state the Premier league money, factor in the wages we currently pay, day to day costs, any transfer fees we pay (stop laughing at the back), it would take an eternity to get the required funds in place by simply 'banking' this money. I can't see anyone wishing to stump up the rest so it makes us a bit stumped unless we go to a bank. Banks aren't really lending full stop at the moment and football clubs will be way down the list of people they will so again I don't think this is feasible.

Is there a solution? The one I have heard which to me seems the most viable is one that I think would be harder for supporters to swallow. The solution would be a ground share. Now before someone starts tapping away to call me a tw@t hear me out. Ourselves and Fulham have the same problem, antiquated stadiums in London, neither has the money to build a new one on their own and also fall into the same London Borough which would in all honesty be not too chuffed about 2 new stadiums going up. Now I know we don't like them, and I don't think they're too keen on us but if the Milan clubs and the Rome Clubs can do it couldn't we? Think about it. The clubs discuss with the council about them also geting involved. They sell CC and we sell LR, this brings in roughly £50 - £60 Million (I'm assuming we get rid of the Amyulya loan purely for simple maths. Each club chucks in another £30 million bringing the pot to £120 Million. The Council also then puts in say £30 million. The ownership of the stadium is the split Us and them own 40% the council own 20%. The new build would obviously have conferencing facilities etc which in London would be snapped up quickly I would imagine given the location and links to Heathrow and Central London. There could be Council run projects operated from there for the community and all profits are split on a 40 40 20 basis as are all in costs. Currently both clubs have stadiums which they have to maintain for 365 days a year when in theory they are only open for business about 25 times a year. Having one stadium being run all year round, with less in costs doesn't sound too bad. The stadium could be done neutrally i.e White seats on two sides with blue seats at one end and black at the other so out fans get the blue, theirs the black. On a Matchday it would then be lit / altered accordingly.

This idea would not be popular with some but as long as both clubs keep their identity and it was split evenly (with the council being the 3rd party) it would solve both clubs problem, and bring a new stadium / complex to the commmunity.

I am now prepared to be slagged off!!!

[blueboy]

we can't dismiss what nodge says...the site around the old ski slope has been developed,sports centre and housing,and there, is still room,yes some of the locals would try and block it...but there are enough Rangers fans who also live out that way to support it..thats the differance between that and HS2...plus,if you had the choice between a train thundering through your district every few mins,or a football ground which would operate once a fortnight,what,do you think,the locals would choose?

[W12_Ranger]

we can't dismiss what nodge says...the site around the old ski slope has been developed,sports centre and housing,and there, is still room,yes some of the locals would try and block it...but there are enough Rangers fans who also live out that way to support it..thats the differance between that and HS2...plus,if you had the choice between a train thundering through your district every few mins,or a football ground which would operate once a fortnight,what,do you think,the locals would choose?

Still ****ing room for what?

What do understand about that land, infrastructure etc.....don't just suggest a green piece off land along the A40.....give some substance to your answer!

Also do you really think regardless of whether someone is a QPR fan they want to see a great big football stadium complex built on their door step....give me strength

[blueboy]

Still ****ing room for what?

What do understand about that land, infrastructure etc.....don't just suggest a green piece off land along the A40.....give some substance to your answer!

Also do you really regardless of whether some one is a QPR fan they want to see a great big football stadium complex built on their door step....give me strength

can't you reply to somebody without effing and blinding

[superhoop67]

we can't dismiss what nodge says...the site around the old ski slope has been developed,sports centre and housing,and there, is still room,yes some of the locals would try and block it...but there are enough Rangers fans who also live out that way to support it..thats the differance between that and HS2...plus,if you had the choice between a train thundering through your district every few mins,or a football ground which would operate once a fortnight,what,do you think,the locals would choose?

do we play downhill 1st half or 2nd

[W12_Ranger]

can't you reply to somebody without effing and blinding

[blueboy]

This one's been done before but here's my take for what it's worth.

To the people who will give the example of a Reading, Brighton, Swansea, Sunderland I would agree that new grounds have seen the attendances rise but it isn't quite as simple as that. The clubs above especially Swansea and Sunderland have large catchment areas with very little else around them, land prices are also considerably lower than anywhere in the South East / Greater London area. Brightons ground seems to be good but I would be interested in how much debt Brighton currently have due to the stadium or do they indeed own it outright? Reading have a good catchment area and bought the land for the ground before the massive boom in property over the last 10 or so years. They also own Madjeski a hell of a lot of money and again I would be interested to know if they own the ground or if he owns the ground or indeed another 3rd party.

Some have suggested moving to somewhere down the A40 and build some ground / training ground complex. Say this was an avenue we looked to explore realistically how much is this whole project going to cost? If you factor in Cost of land, cost of drawing up plans, gaining planning consent, potentially having to build new access roads, or other transport related items, cost of building the thing etc I don't think you'd get much change out say £150 million maybe £200 million. We currently have essentially a debenture of £10 million (the Amulya / Sarita loan) on a ground worth approx £25 million so essentially we would have £15 million after we sold Loftus Road, where does the rest of it come from? Before people state the Premier league money, factor in the wages we currently pay, day to day costs, any transfer fees we pay (stop laughing at the back), it would take an eternity to get the required funds in place by simply 'banking' this money. I can't see anyone wishing to stump up the rest so it makes us a bit stumped unless we go to a bank. Banks aren't really lending full stop at the moment and football clubs will be way down the list of people they will so again I don't think this is feasible.

Is there a solution? The one I have heard which to me seems the most viable is one that I think would be harder for supporters to swallow. The solution would be a ground share. Now before someone starts tapping away to call me a tw@t hear me out. Ourselves and Fulham have the same problem, antiquated stadiums in London, neither has the money to build a new one on their own and also fall into the same London Borough which would in all honesty be not too chuffed about 2 new stadiums going up. Now I know we don't like them, and I don't think they're too keen on us but if the Milan clubs and the Rome Clubs can do it couldn't we? Think about it. The clubs discuss with the council about them also geting involved. They sell CC and we sell LR, this brings in roughly £50 - £60 Million (I'm assuming we get rid of the Amyulya loan purely for simple maths. Each club chucks in another £30 million bringing the pot to £120 Million. The Council also then puts in say £30 million. The ownership of the stadium is the split Us and them own 40% the council own 20%. The new build would obviously have conferencing facilities etc which in London would be snapped up quickly I would imagine given the location and links to Heathrow and Central London. There could be Council run projects operated from there for the community and all profits are split on a 40 40 20 basis as are all in costs. Currently both clubs have stadiums which they have to maintain for 365 days a year when in theory they are only open for business about 25 times a year. Having one stadium being run all year round, with less in costs doesn't sound too bad. The stadium could be done neutrally i.e White seats on two sides with blue seats at one end and black at the other so out fans get the blue, theirs the black. On a Matchday it would then be lit / altered accordingly.

This idea would not be popular with some but as long as both clubs keep their identity and it was split evenly (with the council being the 3rd party) it would solve both clubs problem, and bring a new stadium / complex to the commmunity.

I am now prepared to be slagged off!!!

Swansea and Sunderland may have a larger catchment area,but not a many people living in it
your groundsharing idea may be our answer though

[ElsWheRQPR]

This one's been done before but here's my take for what it's worth.

To the people who will give the example of a Reading, Brighton, Swansea, Sunderland I would agree that new grounds have seen the attendances rise but it isn't quite as simple as that. The clubs above especially Swansea and Sunderland have large catchment areas with very little else around them, land prices are also considerably lower than anywhere in the South East / Greater London area. Brightons ground seems to be good but I would be interested in how much debt Brighton currently have due to the stadium or do they indeed own it outright? Reading have a good catchment area and bought the land for the ground before the massive boom in property over the last 10 or so years. They also own Madjeski a hell of a lot of money and again I would be interested to know if they own the ground or if he owns the ground or indeed another 3rd party.

Some have suggested moving to somewhere down the A40 and build some ground / training ground complex. Say this was an avenue we looked to explore realistically how much is this whole project going to cost? If you factor in Cost of land, cost of drawing up plans, gaining planning consent, potentially having to build new access roads, or other transport related items, cost of building the thing etc I don't think you'd get much change out say £150 million maybe £200 million. We currently have essentially a debenture of £10 million (the Amulya / Sarita loan) on a ground worth approx £25 million so essentially we would have £15 million after we sold Loftus Road, where does the rest of it come from? Before people state the Premier league money, factor in the wages we currently pay, day to day costs, any transfer fees we pay (stop laughing at the back), it would take an eternity to get the required funds in place by simply 'banking' this money. I can't see anyone wishing to stump up the rest so it makes us a bit stumped unless we go to a bank. Banks aren't really lending full stop at the moment and football clubs will be way down the list of people they will so again I don't think this is feasible.

Is there a solution? The one I have heard which to me seems the most viable is one that I think would be harder for supporters to swallow. The solution would be a ground share. Now before someone starts tapping away to call me a tw@t hear me out. Ourselves and Fulham have the same problem, antiquated stadiums in London, neither has the money to build a new one on their own and also fall into the same London Borough which would in all honesty be not too chuffed about 2 new stadiums going up. Now I know we don't like them, and I don't think they're too keen on us but if the Milan clubs and the Rome Clubs can do it couldn't we? Think about it. The clubs discuss with the council about them also geting involved. They sell CC and we sell LR, this brings in roughly £50 - £60 Million (I'm assuming we get rid of the Amyulya loan purely for simple maths. Each club chucks in another £30 million bringing the pot to £120 Million. The Council also then puts in say £30 million. The ownership of the stadium is the split Us and them own 40% the council own 20%. The new build would obviously have conferencing facilities etc which in London would be snapped up quickly I would imagine given the location and links to Heathrow and Central London. There could be Council run projects operated from there for the community and all profits are split on a 40 40 20 basis as are all in costs. Currently both clubs have stadiums which they have to maintain for 365 days a year when in theory they are only open for business about 25 times a year. Having one stadium being run all year round, with less in costs doesn't sound too bad. The stadium could be done neutrally i.e White seats on two sides with blue seats at one end and black at the other so out fans get the blue, theirs the black. On a Matchday it would then be lit / altered accordingly.

This idea would not be popular with some but as long as both clubs keep their identity and it was split evenly (with the council being the 3rd party) it would solve both clubs problem, and bring a new stadium / complex to the commmunity.

I am now prepared to be slagged off!!!

The problem with a groundshare with Fulham is the location. We could move to Wormwood Scubs or to Park Royal, but they'd feel they are not really in Fulham anymore. We're more nomad than them, but i'm not sure loads of us would like a new ground around Putney or South of the Thames.

Honnestly i think we should try with a groundshare. It's really the only option. The White City are would be geographically ok, but not cheap. I don't know anything about our or Fulham's finances, but on the sporting aspect, we would get used to a groundshare. There's plenty of solutions to make it feel more like home for both clubs, like building for each team his own "home half" with the hoops on one side and white seats on the others, but that's small details.

[pblock]

Swansea and Sunderland may have a larger catchment area,but not a many people living in it
your groundsharing idea may be our answer though

Maybe not as many people living in it, but they also don't have Arsenal, Tottenham, Chelsea, Fulham, West Ham, Charlton, Palace, Millwall Watford within a 30 mile odd radius. They have a captive audience is what I was trying to get accross maybe I didn't write quite what was in my head.

[superhoop67]

White City area [unigate] has gone