Debt position at 31/3/10

[rangerforevereastcote]

This is the reason I'm sitting on the fence. We MIGHT not do as bad as we all think. I'm not saying we are going to do well but we might pull together as a club and surprise one or two just like Blackpool did and therefore it might be too early to totally write ourselves off. Yes Blackpool got relegated but not by very much. The likes of Taylor-Fletcher, Ormerod, Vaughan and DJ Campbell were very much seen as Championship players in the same way that Smith, Taraabt, Faurlin and Mackie are but they all had decent seasons. Yes they had Adam but defensively ours currently isn't that much worse so we could with some guts find ourselves doing alright. Of course we could be relegated by Christmas but we it's difficult today to know exactly how much we need to keep us up.

Stoke bought players like Kitson and Beattie when they came up and both flopped and it was Fuller who's goals kept them up in their first season. With one or two good loans and maybe a look at a few from the Championship we could do alright without having to go crazy and therefore not risk the whole financial future of the club but then the other argument is why exist if you aren't going to attempt to compete in what is now a business.

i agree what you say but would add its not abusiness for us, were fans regardless of team and divison, i dont want to risk our team and sat afternoons for the sake of the football mercenarys, i also think we should give our boys a chance they earnt it

[sirpiechucker]

i agree what you say but would add its not abusiness for us, were fans regardless of team and divison, i dont want to risk our team and sat afternoons for the sake of the football mercenarys, i also think we should give our boys a chance they earnt it

Agreed. My boss is a Burnley fan and he saw promotion to the Premiership as an opportunity for his team to survive.

[PinnerPaul]

I just hope we don't look back on this season in 2/3/4 years and feel like we missed a great opportunity to stabalise ourselves as a Premiership club.

You do make some good points but the problem is no amount of investment is going to guarantee survival.

As Sam Allardyce has said recently - West Ham certainly didn't have a bottom 3 squad and certainly won't have been in the bottom half of the wages table with the players they had - but still got relegated.

ANY player is a gamble - look at Torres! - so buying 5 or 6 is that gammle mutiplied by 5/6.

If NW could GURANTEE survival I'm sure the board would back him, but of course he can't so they have the choice of being 'prudent' or not.

Just like Mr Mittal COULD easlily afford to buy out BE if he wanted but he also is being 'prudent' and wants to pay a sensible price.

Interestingly Mittals are still seen as the saviours while BE/FB are seen as money grabbers - the OP clearly, IMHO, illustrates that this is total nonsense.

In reply to another poster ground goes to a company owned by FB AND Mittal if club defaults on the loans.

[Scarlet pimple]

Paying off all the managers they sacked must have added a bob to that amount.

Wages for the duds that were signed, crap italians, shoite loans and all prob overpaid.

Then there is the cost of tarting up the corporate areas.

Looks to me as if the owners incurred a lot of the debt thru their own fark-ups.

[SheepRanger]

You do make some good points but the problem is no amount of investment is going to guarantee survival.

As Sam Allardyce has said recently - West Ham certainly didn't have a bottom 3 squad and certainly won't have been in the bottom half of the wages table with the players they had - but still got relegated.

ANY player is a gamble - look at Torres! - so buying 5 or 6 is that gammle mutiplied by 5/6.

If NW could GURANTEE survival I'm sure the board would back him, but of course he can't so they have the choice of being 'prudent' or not.

Just like Mr Mittal COULD easlily afford to buy out BE if he wanted but he also is being 'prudent' and wants to pay a sensible price.

Interestingly Mittals are still seen as the saviours while BE/FB are seen as money grabbers - the OP clearly, IMHO, illustrates that this is total nonsense.

In reply to another poster ground goes to a company owned by FB AND Mittal if club defaults on the loans.

I agree.

Granted the Mittals were very good at their PR, same as Harding was at Chelsea many years ago. But they are all business people. The current Board have put their money where their mouths are, but just don't get the credit. If £50m of debt was on my head and I was regarded as public enemy number one I'd be pretty **** off!!!

But hey, Bernie and Flavio clearly don't give a stuff what people think of them. But the Mittal love in has been OTT in my opinion.

[SheepRanger]

Paying off all the managers they sacked must have added a bob to that amount.

Wages for the duds that were signed, crap italians, shoite loans and all prob overpaid.

Then there is the cost of tarting up the corporate areas.

Looks to me as if the owners incurred a lot of the debt thru their own fark-ups.

Can't argue that should be taken into account. But hardly to the tune of the whole £13.7m overspend in 09/10

[Scarlet pimple]

Think it cost 5mill for the corprate tarting up alone....and revenue from that???

[rangerforevereastcote]

scarlet do the math
14k crowds avg tkt £25 inc kids concession
=350k x 23 games = 8 mill , even allowing for the fk ups doesnt cover the wage bill for first team squad

[rangerforevereastcote]

just like to add as one previous poster said one of the more sensible debates on here

[maddix]

Morris has a fair point. We need to improve the squad is certain area's otherwise we will get relegated. The back line will be up against pace and power, without investing in new players our defence will be made 2 look silly. The premier league has clinical strikers and at times this year we got away with having the best gk in the division and poor finishing. Also the st and match prices suggest we r looking 2 spend. Otherwise how could u ask someone 2 pay 750 to watch there team get stuffed.
Too many expect nw 2 produce miracles ffs he needs some backing as this level.

NO they don't !!!!!

Says who ???

[Scarlet pimple]

scarlet do the math
14k crowds avg tkt £25 inc kids concession
=350k x 23 games = 8 mill , even allowing for the fk ups doesnt cover the wage bill for first team squad

All i'm saying is they contributed to the debt through running before we could walk......and they are supposed to be clued up business people.
C club was full for about the last three games of last season, and most of the people in there were prob freebies.

The fat orange one has got rid of managers as if they were going out of fashion, costing the club/them pos millions in compensation.

And whacking up st's by 20% to boot, almost a 70% increase in three years.

This club has to my knowledge hardly ever been run at a profit, gates are just not big enough.
The club has survived on its youth setup and the ability to find good young players from the lower divisions develop improve and sell on for a good profit.

As our youth setup has now been neglected and we don't seem to be scouting for good unknown gems.

So with the owners lack of funding for a youth academy or decent scouting system no wonder we are incurring debt at breakneck speed.

[rangerforevereastcote]

All i'm saying is they contributed to the debt through running before we could walk......and they are supposed to be clued up business people.
C club was full for about the last three games of last season, and most of the people in there were prob freebies.

The fat orange one has got rid of managers as if they were going out of fashion, costing the club/them pos millions in compensation.

And whacking up st's by 20% to boot, almost a 70% increase in three years.

This club has to my knowledge hardly ever been run at a profit, gates are just not big enough.
The club has survived on its youth setup and the ability to find good young players from the lower divisions develop improve and sell on for a good profit.

As our youth setup has now been neglected and we don't seem to be scouting for good unknown gems.

So with the owners lack of funding for a youth academy or decent scouting system no wonder we are incurring debt at breakneck speed.

ok scarlet when was the last time we sold a player on for a lot of money? also last player to make it hrough the acadamy and please dont say ray jones

[PedalR]

I think OP is spot on. Thing is, don't virtually all clubs have horrific looking balance sheets? I suspect that a lot of prem teams would jump at the chance to only be £50mil in the red......

[Scarlet pimple]

ok scarlet when was the last time we sold a player on for a lot of money? also last player to make it hrough the acadamy and please dont say ray jones

Sterling.....Parrot.

[rangerforevereastcote]

we got a mill for him , though ill give you him, these days big clubs take the good young uns before they make become worth anything ,dean parrot??