Debt position at 31/3/10

[Morris]

So basically we shouldn't spend any money now, bank our 1 years worth of PL money and 3 years of parachute money and play in the Championship?

I understand we can;t be silly and do a Pompey but we also need to be competitive on the pitch.

[Park Street Ranger]

Well you have to speculate to accumulate. If we don't spend a penny we will likely go down, thus losing out on millions.

If we spend a little now, we could virtually garentuee another years worth of PL money which would ease the clubs debts. Granted we get parachute money but is not the same amount obviously.

I appreciate it's a risk as we COULD still go down and find ourselfes in even more debt, but thats a risk IMO we should take. We can always sell high earners next summer if we were to go down.

I know what you mean but a little money isn't going to guarantee survival. We'd have to spend big time to be sure of staying up and that kind of money is just not going to come our way.

[rangerforevereastcote]

So basically we shouldn't spend any money now, bank our 1 years worth of PL money and 3 years of parachute money and play in the Championship?

I understand we can;t be silly and do a Pompey but we also need to be competitive on the pitch.

mate i would us to be able to invest bt after 15 years of crap dont want to risk going back there for a dream taht will probably turn into anightmare

[Morris]

I appreciate all your points, and none of you are wrong.

I think there is obviously a fine line with regard to spending enough to stay up, yet also spending carefully and with the future of the club in mind.

[rangerforevereastcote]

mate if i was a billionaire id have no problem spending the dosh and writing it off but im a rangers fan, these guys are not and unfortunately we dont seem to have any billionaire rangers fans stepping up to the plate (not that i know of )

[sirpiechucker]

FINALLY a really good debate without moaning or name calling.

It's difficult which side of the fence to stand on as I agree with points from both sides. We the fans will never generate the club enough money to survive on its own. We are always (unless we dramatically grow as a fanbase) going to be dependent on the wealth of an owner(s) but there will always be the what if argument. What if as Morris has said we speculate to accumulate and survive? If we get relegated have we risked the financial future of the club and so why take the risk or if we aren't going to give it our best shot what is the point of existing in the first place?

[rangersroar]

Are we the only club running at a loss ? Answer ..No. Football is not a profit and loss business like all other businesses, it's main business is about success on the pitch, which costs money to achieve. Owners should not come into football thinking that they are going to make money, because most clubs don't.

[Nodge70]

Couple of things. BE & FB inherited much of the debt on the takeover. Not all has been accumulated in the past three years.

Worringly, QPR do not own their own stadium. This is owned by Briatore's company. Crucial, absolutely crucial. We do not have our fate in our own hands, the ground underneath our feet is not an asset. Even Pompey had the stadium. We could not sustain another continued period outside the top flight. We'd be in admin quicker than you can say F1.

Another certainty. BE and FB are not doing this for the good of their health, the good of QPR or the good of QPR fans. They have their own motives. My guess is a land grab with an enabling stadium development as a sop to the council somewhere down the track, but to get it done, they need to sustain PL football. If we're in severe danger of relegation in January they'd do what it took to stay up. I only hope someone has told the powers that be that loans are not allowed past January 31 in the PL too....no more last minute bail outs.

[SheepRanger]

So basically we shouldn't spend any money now, bank our 1 years worth of PL money and 3 years of parachute money and play in the Championship?

I understand we can;t be silly and do a Pompey but we also need to be competitive on the pitch.

Personally, I would take the money, even if that meant being bang on favs for relegation.

I agree we should spend a bit, but as it's been said it would appear we can't even afford Bothroyd - total madness!! But if that's the game then bring on relegation.

Remember though, we are already half way there to being a Pompey/Leeds so we need to be very careful right now.

[Gerryhatrick]

Question is, are we a 2nd tier club punching above our weight, or are we going to grasp this opportunity to try to consolidate our place as a premiership club.

Only the board can decide on their level of risk. As a fan, obviously I want us to go for it, but it's not my money, and it's just so frustrating.

[WeAreQPR12]

Morris has a fair point. We need to improve the squad is certain area's otherwise we will get relegated. The back line will be up against pace and power, without investing in new players our defence will be made 2 look silly. The premier league has clinical strikers and at times this year we got away with having the best gk in the division and poor finishing. Also the st and match prices suggest we r looking 2 spend. Otherwise how could u ask someone 2 pay 750 to watch there team get stuffed.
Too many expect nw 2 produce miracles ffs he needs some backing as this level.

[rangerforevereastcote]

Couple of things. BE & FB inherited much of the debt on the takeover. Not all has been accumulated in the past three years.

Worringly, QPR do not own their own stadium. This is owned by Briatore's company. Crucial, absolutely crucial. We do not have our fate in our own hands, the ground underneath our feet is not an asset. Even Pompey had the stadium.

Another certainty. BE and FB are not doing this for the good of their health, the good of QPR or the good of QPR fans. They have their own motives.

from what i understand they inherited the debt on the staium, we have been running at about 13 milll loss for 3 seasons like i previously mentioned the 4 i qouted on near enough 4 mill between them easy to see how we ended up in debt when we wexre getting 13-14 k home attendence for most of those years. to answer another point noone buys aclub like rangers to make money they buy it for pprestige without the risk (relative) to buying a big club, its a hobby that billionaires play cos they got nothing to do with their money, like i said you cant do that with a arsenal etc but you can with qpr

[Morris]

I just hope we don't look back on this season in 2/3/4 years and feel like we missed a great opportunity to stabalise ourselves as a Premiership club.

[rangerforevereastcote]

Morris has a fair point. We need to improve the squad is certain area's otherwise we will get relegated. The back line will be up against pace and power, without investing in new players our defence will be made 2 look silly. The premier league has clinical strikers and at times this year we got away with having the best gk in the division and poor finishing. Also the st and match prices suggest we r looking 2 spend. Otherwise how could u ask someone 2 pay 750 to watch there team get stuffed.
Too many expect nw 2 produce miracles ffs he needs some backing as this level.

weare we all want investment but as we keep seeing investment needed isnt 10-12mill its probably more like 30-40mill (inc wages) to make any difference, like i said if routledge boothroyd want between 40-50lk and a 3 yr deal what can the board and warnock do?

[sirpiechucker]

weare we all want investment but as we keep seeing investment needed isnt 10-12mill its probably more like 30-40mill (inc wages) to make any difference, like i said if routledge boothroyd want between 40-50lk and a 3 yr deal what can the board and warnock do?

This is the reason I'm sitting on the fence. We MIGHT not do as bad as we all think. I'm not saying we are going to do well but we might pull together as a club and surprise one or two just like Blackpool did and therefore it might be too early to totally write ourselves off. Yes Blackpool got relegated but not by very much. The likes of Taylor-Fletcher, Ormerod, Vaughan and DJ Campbell were very much seen as Championship players in the same way that Smith, Taraabt, Faurlin and Mackie are but they all had decent seasons. Yes they had Adam but defensively ours currently isn't that much worse so we could with some guts find ourselves doing alright. Of course we could be relegated by Christmas but we it's difficult today to know exactly how much we need to keep us up.

Stoke bought players like Kitson and Beattie when they came up and both flopped and it was Fuller who's goals kept them up in their first season. With one or two good loans and maybe a look at a few from the Championship we could do alright without having to go crazy and therefore not risk the whole financial future of the club but then the other argument is why exist if you aren't going to attempt to compete in what is now a business.