QPR: home truth's about the fans, owners and the club

[Bigdave]

Over the last 6 months I have read so many negative posts on this MB, ranging from:

Personal attacks on each other
Personal attacks on flavio
Personal attacks on players
Personal attacks on the new manager
negative opinions on just about anything about QPR:

-players
-lack of money spent by the owners
-the way the owners have financed QPR
-the Flavio runs the company on a day to day basis
-the change of the qpr badge

just about anything at all........... even read reports that people enjoyed QPR more when we were in admin, in the 2nd division with no future!! short memories.......... and quite frankly totally stupid thing to say!!

The fact is the club have made mass steps forward over the last 2 years.....

almost in admin vs now owned by billionaires,
car giant local sponsor vs gulf air global brand
run down ground vs improved ground with big screen, (Yeah a big screen no-body in SAR can see)exec facilities 2nd to none, serious revenue generator improvement opportunities
a relegation squad vs a very good squad capable of promotion
doom and gloom vs positive expectation

You all moan about Flavio getting too involved with the footballing side, well if i was a chairman and investor of a company, and the company was not producing the required results, I would demand answers and get involved to see where the problem is. We don't actually know what his involvement has been, but we always wanted a Charmian to be involved, making decisions when things are not right.... we now have one....... shame everyone now thinks the grass is greener on the other side

I read on here that the club is in financial trouble, and that the £10m loan is a way for the owners to make profit from the club.... in the same way you all state/demand flavio should stay out of footballing matters as he does not understand it, well take your own advice and keep out of the financial matters. As it is their money, and if they didn't have the best interest of the club why would they have invested the amount they have to date, which is significant. All the big football clubs operate in debt, you just need cash to run the debt. No problem at all, well not for me. Posters have said the £10m loan is a self making money scheme as it is financed at 7%.... this is crazy, as while the current owners still own the club and the lending company it is just "funny money". If they need to invest more money into the club they will provide the funds, i am sure.

Everyone is saying the club is a laughing stock.(To other football fans we are a laughing stock because Flavio came out with the 'in 4 years time we will be in the champions league' and yet we cant even get in the play-off's)..... i think you will find the press love to see big names fail. We have owners with big names and they love to run stories that will get people's attention. A few years ago we weren't in the media now we are in it all the time..... i think this is a good thing.

Sponsors... we have global sponsors.... multi million pound deals.... the envy of most premiership clubs.....

I have renewed my season ticket, and i am looking forward to the new season. Jim Magilton is a good appointment, not my personal favorite appointment i admit, but i can live with it and will give him a chance.
Players wise almost there.... 2 new strikers, left back, get Lopez in and tarbatt on loan for the season and I think we are a top 6 team.

The issue here, is that we all had an expectation of immediate success, including the press and I expect the owners. Mistakes will be made on this journey, but it is all about how you learn from the mistakes. These owners don't fail, give them time.

is it not about time we all started being positive and getting behind the ENTIRE football club? I think so!

Come on U R'ssssssssssssssssssssss

A good post mate but please dont try and pretend everything is rosy because it isnt, if it was we would have sold 10-12000 season tickets by now. The reason we havent is because die-hard fans are disillusioned with how the club is being run. Flav in particular has made himself very unpopular amongst supporters.

[Scarlet pimple]

A good post mate but please dont try and pretend everything is rosy because it isnt, if it was we would have sold 10-12000 season tickets by now. The reason we havent is because die-hard fans are disillusioned with how the club is being run. Flav in particular has made himself very unpopular amongst supporters.

Thats a good realistic comment, some on here blame the fans and think the board has done no wrong........

[bushkangaroo]

Glad to see the fightback starting! At last, we have more positive posts instead of posts, posts and more posts, criticising the board with nothing constructive to add. Hope we can get this positive attitude through more and more on the other messageboards, too--lets do it, and minimise the impact the whingers have! Give it a month-six weeks, and I think we'll find we have a significantly stronger squad, at least on paper. Then its up to them and the manager. But I wouldn't mind betting by the time the season starts we'll have sold at least 7,000 season tickets and walk-up pay on the day crowds will be better than last season. Away with the whingers, and lets support the club.

[scottyboy007]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdave
"A good post mate but please don't try and pretend everything is rosy because it isn't, if it was we would have sold 10-12000 season tickets by now. The reason we haven't is because die-hard fans are disillusioned with how the club is being run. Flav in particular has made himself very unpopular amongst supporters. "

-----------

I am not suggesting everything is rosy, but it is not as bleak as many people would make out.

In contrast to where we were 2 years ago verge of "bust" then you could forgive others for suggesting everything was rosy.

Why are "die-hard fans disillusioned with how the club is being run"? Everyone seems to be quick to jump on the band wagon of such statements, however no one can actually quantify such a claim.

I assume it is because of:

1) failure to reach the premiership at the first attempt
2) increase in the season ticket prices
3) introduction of a new pricing scheme IE bronze silver gold platinum
4) the c-club
5) change in badge
6) blue shorts at home
7) non appointment of a house hold name of a manager
8) no HUGE name signings
9) ABC loan not being zero'd by the owners
10) Flavio's alleged involvement with the team and sacking of mgrs

any others I have missed?

Let me flip the above points and view it another way:

1) failure to reach the premiership at the first attempt.

The owners always said it was a 4 year plan, the fans/bookies/press/ decided to ignore their plans, and create an expectation of immediate glory. So is it the owners who are disillusioned? I don't think so.

2) increase in the season ticket prices

The increase made last year was high and for some fans too much. Personally I thought this was a mistake, interestingly for me my season ticket reduced on the previous year. In the previous year I was expecting to see the likes of Curtis, nygaard, bolder etc. Whereas last year i got a cheaper ticket viewing a new team of class players buzz, vine, Connelly, parejo. Unfortunately it didn't quite work out as players did not perform or injured. If pricing was so wrong, why did we sell 10,000 ST's?

3) introduction of a new pricing scheme IE bronze silver gold platinum
As above, but given the financial position of the club when they took over and plans to improve the financial affairs, something had to be done to balance the books. Based on the players and increased wages, this system was introduced. Again there were winners and losers. In no way should fans claim to be disillusioned with how the club is being run, based on this.

4) the c-club
What was the issue with the c-club? Something new to try and promote QPR, PR the club, increase revenue, attract big names... appears not to have been quite the success as the owners would have hoped, though some massive names have come. But should we the fans be disillusioned as a result of this? I don't think so, still think the c club will come good.

5) change in badge
The club have changed the badge many many times b4, never been an issue before. I don't see the problem, i like the new badge, i also liked the old badge. Change happens, and changes are healthy...... you move or get left behind. From what i have heard from fans they like the new badge

6) blue shorts at home
I did not like the blue shorts at home and neither did the majority of fans, but this is a minor change which was incorrect and they have reverted back to white shorts for next season. Not a reason to claim they owners are clueless. The fact the club are going back to white, suggest they learn from mistakes.

7) non appointment of a house hold name of a manager
Majority of the great managers we wanted... were strangely enough already employed, and why would they want to drop down the league in any case. Time will tell if magilton is a success or not. His title is "manager", this hopefully is an indicator that the owners will let him manage and take full responsibility of all footballing matters.

8) no HUGE name signings
They never promised massive signings... however they have bought some very good talented, players which should be capable of taking us out of this league. However, they have not performed. The owners have invested significantly, we have one of the highest wage bill in the league, only second to Newcastle in the championship. Something which this club has never been able to do before. Maybe they have tried to sign some £5m players, but it didn't come off. For all we know, they may have tried to sign many players, but players don't want to drop down a league. Who knows, but in terms of signings no reason for any fans to be disillusioned, we have signed around 30 players since they arrived. The players salary are now more significant than the transfer salary

9) ABC loan not being zero'd by the owners
This is one which I hear has made fans disillusioned by the club...... why? flavio and amit have funded the money to the club, while they own the club the money has been provided by them. They are business men and they decided that the best way of securing the club's future was this way. As stated before, cash flow is what makes a business successful lack of it makes a business go under, we have a healthy cash flow. Think of all the massive football clubs around the world... they all operate to massive debts, we don't hear other fans being disillusioned with the owners as we always here from our fans.

10) Flavio's alleged involvement with the team and sacking of mgrs
We all watched the football last season, the team did not perform, the mgrs were generally defensive. As the owner and chairman i think he has every right to step in and demand answers. Re Sousa... we all went mad after winning against Preston to then 7 changes at Charlton and the loss to Ipswich. These two things decided Sousa's future. Sousa was sacked for alleged breaches to club confidentiality. If this is the case then the owners were right to sack him, as no company can operate if management is breaching confidentiality. In any case none of us were happy with Dowie and Sousa as performances and results were not good enough. The owners acted and made decisions. Previous chairmans have been guilty of not making decisions. So are we really disillusioned with regard to this subject? i would suggest

Based on the above I am not disillusioned with how the club is being run. I expect many "die hard" fans would agree with me too.

In fact when i look at what they have done off the pitch:
- Re conditioned Loftus Road
- new big screen
- New pitch at HQ and training ground
- investment in circa 30 players
- making the club financially sound again
- building a healthly P&L for the future
- signing up the biggest sponsors in the history of the club
- Making QPR known again as a force in the UK and around the world
- investing in a youth system
- new ideas to increase revenue e.g. new dimension to corporate hospitality

This would actually suggest they are quite the opposite to "disillusioned".

One area of disappointment is the stability of the club on the pitch...... this for me appears to be recognized by the owners, we now have a "manager" and the next 12 months should be interesting to see if they have stabilized this area of the football club. I will re evaluate my views on the owners in a years time, but I expect the club would have continued this significant progress we haven seen in the 18 months we have been here.

finally, just maybe the fans have been disillusioned by the hype created by the media and expectations that in reality were not realistic.

or should we just simply blame Flavio... cos after all this is the nice easy option, the media do because he is a name, and the media like to bring a big name down........

[Quaz]

you forgot to gloss up Flavio's attitude towards fans....the family atmosphere has gone....could write along story like yours highlighting the negatives but cannot be bothered as someone else will just come along and say it's not that bad.....

[big ade]

if you're neative some will agree,if you're poitive some will agree but rthe first post was on the nail.

[Factamondo]

Couldn't have said it better myself, good post but im sure someone will find a negative.

:waaaht:...........ive had joe tex quicker than the time it took me to read that............some valid points though!!!

[qpr48]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigdave
"A good post mate but please don't try and pretend everything is rosy because it isn't, if it was we would have sold 10-12000 season tickets by now. The reason we haven't is because die-hard fans are disillusioned with how the club is being run. Flav in particular has made himself very unpopular amongst supporters. "

-----------

I am not suggesting everything is rosy, but it is not as bleak as many people would make out.

In contrast to where we were 2 years ago verge of "bust" then you could forgive others for suggesting everything was rosy.

Why are "die-hard fans disillusioned with how the club is being run"? Everyone seems to be quick to jump on the band wagon of such statements, however no one can actually quantify such a claim.

I assume it is because of:

1) failure to reach the premiership at the first attempt
2) increase in the season ticket prices
3) introduction of a new pricing scheme IE bronze silver gold platinum
4) the c-club
5) change in badge
6) blue shorts at home
7) non appointment of a house hold name of a manager
8) no HUGE name signings
9) ABC loan not being zero'd by the owners
10) Flavio's alleged involvement with the team and sacking of mgrs

any others I have missed?

Let me flip the above points and view it another way:

1) failure to reach the premiership at the first attempt.

The owners always said it was a 4 year plan, the fans/bookies/press/ decided to ignore their plans, and create an expectation of immediate glory. So is it the owners who are disillusioned? I don't think so.

2) increase in the season ticket prices

The increase made last year was high and for some fans too much. Personally I thought this was a mistake, interestingly for me my season ticket reduced on the previous year. In the previous year I was expecting to see the likes of Curtis, nygaard, bolder etc. Whereas last year i got a cheaper ticket viewing a new team of class players buzz, vine, Connelly, parejo. Unfortunately it didn't quite work out as players did not perform or injured. If pricing was so wrong, why did we sell 10,000 ST's?

3) introduction of a new pricing scheme IE bronze silver gold platinum
As above, but given the financial position of the club when they took over and plans to improve the financial affairs, something had to be done to balance the books. Based on the players and increased wages, this system was introduced. Again there were winners and losers. In no way should fans claim to be disillusioned with how the club is being run, based on this.

4) the c-club
What was the issue with the c-club? Something new to try and promote QPR, PR the club, increase revenue, attract big names... appears not to have been quite the success as the owners would have hoped, though some massive names have come. But should we the fans be disillusioned as a result of this? I don't think so, still think the c club will come good.

5) change in badge
The club have changed the badge many many times b4, never been an issue before. I don't see the problem, i like the new badge, i also liked the old badge. Change happens, and changes are healthy...... you move or get left behind. From what i have heard from fans they like the new badge

6) blue shorts at home
I did not like the blue shorts at home and neither did the majority of fans, but this is a minor change which was incorrect and they have reverted back to white shorts for next season. Not a reason to claim they owners are clueless. The fact the club are going back to white, suggest they learn from mistakes.

7) non appointment of a house hold name of a manager
Majority of the great managers we wanted... were strangely enough already employed, and why would they want to drop down the league in any case. Time will tell if magilton is a success or not. His title is "manager", this hopefully is an indicator that the owners will let him manage and take full responsibility of all footballing matters.

8) no HUGE name signings
They never promised massive signings... however they have bought some very good talented, players which should be capable of taking us out of this league. However, they have not performed. The owners have invested significantly, we have one of the highest wage bill in the league, only second to Newcastle in the championship. Something which this club has never been able to do before. Maybe they have tried to sign some £5m players, but it didn't come off. For all we know, they may have tried to sign many players, but players don't want to drop down a league. Who knows, but in terms of signings no reason for any fans to be disillusioned, we have signed around 30 players since they arrived. The players salary are now more significant than the transfer salary

9) ABC loan not being zero'd by the owners
This is one which I hear has made fans disillusioned by the club...... why? flavio and amit have funded the money to the club, while they own the club the money has been provided by them. They are business men and they decided that the best way of securing the club's future was this way. As stated before, cash flow is what makes a business successful lack of it makes a business go under, we have a healthy cash flow. Think of all the massive football clubs around the world... they all operate to massive debts, we don't hear other fans being disillusioned with the owners as we always here from our fans.

10) Flavio's alleged involvement with the team and sacking of mgrs
We all watched the football last season, the team did not perform, the mgrs were generally defensive. As the owner and chairman i think he has every right to step in and demand answers. Re Sousa... we all went mad after winning against Preston to then 7 changes at Charlton and the loss to Ipswich. These two things decided Sousa's future. Sousa was sacked for alleged breaches to club confidentiality. If this is the case then the owners were right to sack him, as no company can operate if management is breaching confidentiality. In any case none of us were happy with Dowie and Sousa as performances and results were not good enough. The owners acted and made decisions. Previous chairmans have been guilty of not making decisions. So are we really disillusioned with regard to this subject? i would suggest

Based on the above I am not disillusioned with how the club is being run. I expect many "die hard" fans would agree with me too.

In fact when i look at what they have done off the pitch:
- Re conditioned Loftus Road
- new big screen
- New pitch at HQ and training ground
- investment in circa 30 players
- making the club financially sound again
- building a healthly P&L for the future
- signing up the biggest sponsors in the history of the club
- Making QPR known again as a force in the UK and around the world
- investing in a youth system
- new ideas to increase revenue e.g. new dimension to corporate hospitality

This would actually suggest they are quite the opposite to "disillusioned".

One area of disappointment is the stability of the club on the pitch...... this for me appears to be recognized by the owners, we now have a "manager" and the next 12 months should be interesting to see if they have stabilized this area of the football club. I will re evaluate my views on the owners in a years time, but I expect the club would have continued this significant progress we haven seen in the 18 months we have been here.

finally, just maybe the fans have been disillusioned by the hype created by the media and expectations that in reality were not realistic.

or should we just simply blame Flavio... cos after all this is the nice easy option, the media do because he is a name, and the media like to bring a big name down........

At last,!!!!.Constructive Criticism.(Now that is very rare on this MB.)

[crowlehoops]

excellent post scottyboy - totally agree with you

[Rich]

In the words of Bob Hoskins

"It's good to moan"

[sirpiechucker]

Good work scottyboy! Well said that man. People like you make me proud to be an R!

[RamseyR]

Nice to hear from other fans who think their glass is half full.

[qblockpete]

very good post, agree with alot of it.

Take a look at the majority of real whingers now, they are the same as 2 years BEFORE the take-over.

The club do have to be careful of presenting an image to fans, because when an appointment like Magilton comes along it really does get a few disillusioned to the point, that some have requested for a refund on a season tickets and many fans expectations have gone down from this time last year.

I doubt if we will match the attendances of last season especially early on, but we should not be gloating about it along with much less renewal figures. I'm hoping with many picking and choosing games next season that crowds pick up.

[kron-1664]

good post Gianni!

seriously tho, would anyone want to be Southampton , charlton or norwich? i think we are lucky as i am 110% sure (to use typical footballer speak) that we would be in the same/worse position as them.

I was happy with mid table mediocrety this year

[qblockpete]

Do love when somone posts a positive thread he is either Gianni, works at the club is the Managing director or a spokesman for spinning the club