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Originally posted by Leytonstoneblue
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Sorry guys, but I think a lot of you are blinkered and choosing to ignore the worst case scenario here. As you would expect there is much debate over on the Cardiff message boards, these messages below are from a poster who seems to have a good grasp on the issues, they may be quite an interesting contribution to the debate.
"It's both the FA and the FL believe it or not but it's the FA which has raised the charges and set up the independent tribunal to hear the case.
I was unsure about the likely outcome of this whole thing until I was told last week that 2 of the charges against QPR are on behalf of the FL, QPR have been charged with fielding an ineligible player in FL match during season 2009-2010 and a second charge of fielding an ineligible player in season 2010-2011.
The remaining charges relate to 3rd party ownership, failing to declare a 3rd party interest in registration documents and submitting incorrect / false documentation and using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent. One charge has been made against both the club and Mr Paladini.
I have been told that there is absolutely no doubt about the 3rd party ownership and it was not declared in the original registration document pack. QPR are saying this was a mistake and not a deliberate attempt to conceal, this will not matter one dot to the FA and when QPR are found guilty the original registration will be cancelled hence the charges relating to fielding an ineligible player.
FL rules allow for a 3 point deduction for each game the player appeared in (39 matches in 2009-2010) and 6 matches during 2010-2011 although the 3rd party issue was not fully resolved until January 2011 so there may be more games this season.
The FA have the power to apply punishment on behalf of the FL and I have no doubt if the idependent tribunal find against the club they will. If thats the case forget automatic promotion, forget the playoffs and start worrying about relegation.
Also expect the 3rd from bottom place club last season Sheffield Wednesday starting legal proceedings for loss of income, apparently Mandaric has already had lawyers all over it as if this had come to light last season QPR would have been relegated instead of Sheffield Wednesday because of the likely points deduction.
The hearing starts a week today with the results published on the 6th May the day before the last round of games"
"Until last week I had no idea what the exact charges were against QPR only that there were 7 of them including using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent.
However last week completely by accident I bumped into an old friend in town and we had a drink together to catch up on things. I cannot say his name but believe me he has worked in football for over 40 years and currently works for UEFA.
Talk got around to the Bluebirds and he asked where I thought we would finish and I said I hoped 2nd, he replied with the hole QPR have dug for themselves 3rd will probably be good enough.I immediately asked him what he meant by that because having known him for over 20 years he is normally very careful with what he says because of his job, just a feeling he said which for this guy was ******** he either knew something or he didn't so I pushed him further.
When I said he couldn't know because the FA I only made public that there were 7 charges and not what the 7 charges were he sort of smiled and gave me the its not what you know look. He wouldn't tell me how he found this out, more than my jobs worth and all that stuff, but most people think registration documents are lodged with the PL & FL which is right but they are also lodged with the FA.
In the case of the FA there are absolute requirements which must be submitted prior to registration i.e. for overseas players an international transfer certificate. Also for overseas players full written disclosure of the financial arrangements involved in the transfer including ALL payments to agents and FULL disclosure of any 3rd party interest in the player with full disclosure of the arrangements to but out the 3rd party interest.
When the FA introduced the new regulations regarding 3rd Party interest in players they developed lovely new forms to complete which must be submitted with the registration pack of documents. In this case no form was submitted confirming a 3rd party interest BIG BIG Mistake now it has all come out that the player is owned by a South American Company.
QPR have been supplied with a copy of original registration pack the club submitted and with details of the Company who claim ownership of the player, well their past ownership because QPR agreed terms to buy out their interest in January this year.
Failure to supply ALL documents required by the FA means the player registration under FL rules is null and void and the player becomes ineligible to play in any matches. I understand this process because I have been involved in football administration for over 20 years so I understand how it works.
When I heard that 2 of the charges related to a breach of FL rules regarding fielding an ineligible player I knew through my experience that QPR have a huge problem. The PL failed to properly apply their rules in the Tevez case but this time the FA are dealing with it and I don't think for one second that if QPR are found guilty, or in football terminolgy the case is proven 3rd place in this years championship will be good enough for automatic promotion.
If it is the case I will feel sorry for the QPR fans because they have done nothing wrong yet they will feel the pain of a guilty verdict more than anyone. But none of this is personal and if the boot was on the other football there would be 23 other championship clubs and their fans who would take our place.
Just the way of the world"
"It's both the FA and the FL believe it or not but it's the FA which has raised the charges and set up the independent tribunal to hear the case.
I was unsure about the likely outcome of this whole thing until I was told last week that 2 of the charges against QPR are on behalf of the FL, QPR have been charged with fielding an ineligible player in FL match during season 2009-2010 and a second charge of fielding an ineligible player in season 2010-2011.
The remaining charges relate to 3rd party ownership, failing to declare a 3rd party interest in registration documents and submitting incorrect / false documentation and using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent. One charge has been made against both the club and Mr Paladini.
I have been told that there is absolutely no doubt about the 3rd party ownership and it was not declared in the original registration document pack. QPR are saying this was a mistake and not a deliberate attempt to conceal, this will not matter one dot to the FA and when QPR are found guilty the original registration will be cancelled hence the charges relating to fielding an ineligible player.
FL rules allow for a 3 point deduction for each game the player appeared in (39 matches in 2009-2010) and 6 matches during 2010-2011 although the 3rd party issue was not fully resolved until January 2011 so there may be more games this season.
The FA have the power to apply punishment on behalf of the FL and I have no doubt if the idependent tribunal find against the club they will. If thats the case forget automatic promotion, forget the playoffs and start worrying about relegation.
Also expect the 3rd from bottom place club last season Sheffield Wednesday starting legal proceedings for loss of income, apparently Mandaric has already had lawyers all over it as if this had come to light last season QPR would have been relegated instead of Sheffield Wednesday because of the likely points deduction.
The hearing starts a week today with the results published on the 6th May the day before the last round of games"
"Until last week I had no idea what the exact charges were against QPR only that there were 7 of them including using or attempting to use an unlicensed agent.
However last week completely by accident I bumped into an old friend in town and we had a drink together to catch up on things. I cannot say his name but believe me he has worked in football for over 40 years and currently works for UEFA.
Talk got around to the Bluebirds and he asked where I thought we would finish and I said I hoped 2nd, he replied with the hole QPR have dug for themselves 3rd will probably be good enough.I immediately asked him what he meant by that because having known him for over 20 years he is normally very careful with what he says because of his job, just a feeling he said which for this guy was ******** he either knew something or he didn't so I pushed him further.
When I said he couldn't know because the FA I only made public that there were 7 charges and not what the 7 charges were he sort of smiled and gave me the its not what you know look. He wouldn't tell me how he found this out, more than my jobs worth and all that stuff, but most people think registration documents are lodged with the PL & FL which is right but they are also lodged with the FA.
In the case of the FA there are absolute requirements which must be submitted prior to registration i.e. for overseas players an international transfer certificate. Also for overseas players full written disclosure of the financial arrangements involved in the transfer including ALL payments to agents and FULL disclosure of any 3rd party interest in the player with full disclosure of the arrangements to but out the 3rd party interest.
When the FA introduced the new regulations regarding 3rd Party interest in players they developed lovely new forms to complete which must be submitted with the registration pack of documents. In this case no form was submitted confirming a 3rd party interest BIG BIG Mistake now it has all come out that the player is owned by a South American Company.
QPR have been supplied with a copy of original registration pack the club submitted and with details of the Company who claim ownership of the player, well their past ownership because QPR agreed terms to buy out their interest in January this year.
Failure to supply ALL documents required by the FA means the player registration under FL rules is null and void and the player becomes ineligible to play in any matches. I understand this process because I have been involved in football administration for over 20 years so I understand how it works.
When I heard that 2 of the charges related to a breach of FL rules regarding fielding an ineligible player I knew through my experience that QPR have a huge problem. The PL failed to properly apply their rules in the Tevez case but this time the FA are dealing with it and I don't think for one second that if QPR are found guilty, or in football terminolgy the case is proven 3rd place in this years championship will be good enough for automatic promotion.
If it is the case I will feel sorry for the QPR fans because they have done nothing wrong yet they will feel the pain of a guilty verdict more than anyone. But none of this is personal and if the boot was on the other football there would be 23 other championship clubs and their fans who would take our place.
Just the way of the world"
Now my understanding is that the football league do as yet not have the rules on
third party ownership, that is why the football league have past it on to the FA who do, so how can the football league deduct anything.
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