The independant FA panel for our hearing

[Jeffro]

So let me get this right.

Is it the FA with their own representitives or is it a complete independant panel ( A lawyer, Sports Solicitior, ex pro) who will be deciding our fate?

If it is 3 people made up by the FA, then obviously they will make a decision, as a lot of others suggest that will benefit everyone.
I.E waiting to see how far ahead we are to see how many points if any they can deduct , without affecting the logisitics of promotion.

But.... IF it is an independant committe, will they not just punish us as much as they deem worthy. Points (Enough to see us out of the top 7) , a fine of any amount.... Transfer embargo..... The list is quite frightening really..

Will the FA give the independant committe some rough guideline's , like saying
"Whatever happens dont stop them getting promoted, could cause us grief"

If that is the case, then whats the point of an independant committee??

We could find ourselves getting screwed totally by non footballing people, wanting to look more powerful than what they are...

Starting to worry a little.

[Funge]

I was wondering about this too! In my brainbox I wondered if this was some sort of arbitration in which case an independent thirds party would hear both sides then make a decision that would be binding on both sides, however it does not mean we then can't take the FA to court.
However I just don't know!

I also wondered whether this panel perhaps just hears both sides and then if it finds us guilty passes the "sentencing" over to the FA?

They say it's an independent panel so surely this means a panel not made up FA people, if it was surely it shows just how bent the FA is and a court case could then be taken by us? In the end I'm sure our legal team knows the INS and outs and will have their eyes open for any faults in the process by the FA!

[80sCasual]

Or is it just an easy get out for the FA so whatever happens and to avoid any comebacks they can just say 'Well it wasn't our decision'

[swanleyhoop]

If it's TRULY independent, surely the questions they would be asking would be along the lines of:
"Did this give them any on-the-pitch advantage over the other teams? Did this player play when he shouldn't have? Have any of their points been gained unfairly?"
And, if the answers to that are all no (which they seem to be), independent people would surely say, "well then, no points deduction, not appropriate, we'll fine them for what seems to be admin errors".

And if it's made up of FA people, they would know the implications of a points deduction and the subsequent appeal messing everything up, so would err against it anyway.

OR I am I just being too simplistic here?

[Jeffro]

Or is it just an easy get out for the FA so whatever happens and to avoid any comebacks they can just say 'Well it wasn't our decision'

This is my worry 80's.
How can Pete say fine, only a fine definately, when the panel might say actually Pete 10 points sounds better

[qblockpete]

Loads of legal techincal jargon.

Not sure but the case started under the Football League rules than passed onto FA because they had no powers.

Guessing thats why Independent Tribunal is needed.

Could be totally wrong on that, but it does make sense

[Sprocket]

Pete - on a totally unrelated topic. Any sign of Tarbs? Is it true the team stayed up norf for the weekend?

[swanleyhoop]

Seemed that the FL had no rule, then had a rule, which the club realised affected them, so they went to FL for advice on what to do (a BIG plus in our favour legally);
FL had no precedent as it was a new rule(!), so passed it to FA as umbrella body for advice;
FA decided there was a problem which club were informed of, club asked what to do and were told (during this iffy period, Faurlin was 'injured' and didn't play -- convenient, huh?);

Then comes the problem bit...FA told club what to do, but it seems like the advice wasn't properly followed. I get the feeling the whole case hinges on the FA proving we deliberately misled them over the third party/agent registration business, rather than it being a genuine mistake.
Because the FA are the aggrieved, they have called an independent tribunal to look at the whole case objectively.

In law (and, with a QC involved), burden of proof lies with the aggrieved, not the accused -- the FA must be able to present irrefutable proof that we have deliberately misled.

Having an independent panel might be to our advantage here -- they will see the wood for the trees. Unless, of course, we have deliberately misled, and they think we as a club have lied to the FA. We can't overlook that as being a possibility.

Look on the bright side -- we can all visit Brighton's nice new Falmer Stadium next season...

(THAT ONE'S FOR THE ABSOLUTE DOOM-MONGERS, BTW!!)

[PedalR]

What about avenue's of appeal though? I remember some of Briatore's indiscretions ending up with some "World Court for Sporting Justice" thingy... is that a pukka route or just a jumped-up Bernie creatioin for motor sport? I s'pose my question is: if we get a nasty and punitive outcome in a few weeks can we drag it out for months/years via appeals?

[swanleyhoop]

As there's a QC involved, it's now within the normal legal system, so would go through the High Court and even the European Courts. It's legal rather than just sporting arbitration now. That's the route of any appeals now.
Which means, that, if found guilty, individuals COULD have legal charges brought against them.
FA have had it in for certain individuals re: the 'fit and proper persons' rules for a while -- might be after them rather than the club -- and I wonder whether their real aim is a small punishment for the club, but REALLY to try and use the opportunity to have certain individuals ruled as unfit, and have them barred from holding any position within any football club.

[Scarlet pimple]

As there's a QC involved, it's now within the normal legal system, so would go through the High Court and even the European Courts. It's legal rather than just sporting arbitration now. That's the route of any appeals now.
Which means, that, if found guilty, individuals COULD have legal charges brought against them.
FA have had it in for certain individuals re: the 'fit and proper persons' rules for a while -- might be after them rather than the club -- and I wonder whether their real aim is a small punishment for the club, but REALLY to try and use the opportunity to have certain individuals ruled as unfit, and have them barred from holding any position within any football club.

A bit like this story Swanley.

After a winter in Kenya to build himself up after a number of dis-appointments Flavio Briatore returns to the UK via Italy having being intrusted with negotiating powers to introduce Red Bull to the owners of Fiorentina Football Club. A sale of Fiorentina has been denied and it may have to be put on the backburner whilst an alternative Sponsorship deal is concluded with the possibility of a buy-out taking place behind the scenes with gradual purchase of shares over a period of time.
As Flavio denies any interest or knowledge of this relationship he has started negotiations with the Directors of Norwich City F.C on behalf of the Valle Colle family who own Fiorentina.
Norwich City's recently installed Director, Private Equity expert Alan Bowket, known as a lifelong Canaries fan, has a house in Lucca in the heart of Tuscany. He was introduced to Norwich to fund the possible attempt for Premiership promotion with the astute employment of Paul Lambert.
Bowkets role was to introduce funding both for the possibility of success in the Championship and then the Premiership whilst seeing that Delia Smith needed to reduce her capital that had been tied up in the Club.
A Private Equity deal would seem to be a natural solution, Norwich City is a well supported Club, with a modern stadium, the loyalty of its fans is legendary regardless of position in the Leagues.
As Flavio networks on this deal, he also has started negotiations with Southampton FC which could also be suited to a similar Private Equity deal. The Club has many similarities to Norwich City and has the potential to launch a sustained attempt to get into the premiership with the correct funding.
Flavio Briatore see's himself as having successful experience in managing the takeover and subsequent launch on a promotion run of under-performing English Football Clubs. He contacts amongst the biggest sponsors, the personally wealthy, and large private equity funds is possibly un-matched.
Have the dangers of his brutish and un-diplomatic management skills should have taught business partners, whilst keeping close to Flavio for business benefits, that he cannot be at a operational level in the running of those businesses.
It will become apparent if the hand of Flavio lie's at the heart of QPR's FA trials that are still to be faced by the Club. Flavio's duplitious methods have removed him from Formula One team Management, his Tax affairs somehow still remain unclear.
Flavio Briatore is in some way part of the success that is just perhaps a week away for QPR, there is no doubt his machiavellian business techniques have left, equally dark character Gianni Paladini, behind. What perhaps distinguish's the two is that Paladini has grown to love the Club whilst Briatore does not.
They both have done great things for the Club, their success seems to have left a bad taste in the mouths of fans who support their ventures. Equally that bad taste often ends in legal retribution from sporting rulers.
Both Formula One and The FA have waited till sometime later to deal with the outfall from Briatore and Paladini's activities. It remains unclear why both Formula One and The FA delayed for so long before looking for reconciliation.
The outcome that i believe would be politically correct is that if Paladini is proved to have been fraudulent in the re-negotiation of Faurlins contract that he is seen to be unsuitable for Club Management by the FA and the Club are made to remove him as a Director and Employee. If the hand of Briatore can be seen in these acts apply the same result.
I believe this is the result that The FA seek whether their legal team can draw the evidence will be a test of the 'case'
As for QPR FC, a substantial fine and a fine of Thirty points. This fine is suspended for three years whilst QPR ensures full compliance with current FA and Premier League regulations.
I think i see this as the two sided hand of justice, the protagonists are punished, compliance begins and can be measured, the Club is punished but can move forward carefully within the regulations.
The headlines Directors removed, Club fined XX Million, QPR hit with Thirty Points.......suspended for three years....

[swanleyhoop]

yes, you're right it is -- the individual is punished more under that 'fit and proper persons' rule, and the club, relatively speaking, breathes a sigh of relief at a suspended points deduction -- which all people involved do their damnest (we hope) to avoid invoking by following all the rule/guidelines in future, and not trying to be underhanded, shady, or carrying out club affairs with brown paper bags.
We are not above the law, and I think someone might have forgotten/ignored that, perhaps?

All will come clear when the report of the hearing is published.
(But I bet there might be a few other clubs nervously awaiting the results of our hearing too...in case of any precedents set. We have been found out because of our initial transparency -- which might count in our favour.)

[HammersmithR]

Pete - on a totally unrelated topic. Any sign of Tarbs? Is it true the team stayed up norf for the weekend?

Team have definitely stayed up north this weekend.

[bhujio]

Can only see a moneytery fine and any points penalty will be suspended as the FA are also concerned about Litigations which QPR WILL BRING IF denied promotion for loss of revenue as the FL had already sanctioned the deal and asked for advice from the FA at a later date.

We will defo play in the premier league next year.

No hard proof but just my way of cheering my self up instead of worring about it.

Just wait until the hearing.


Bhujio

[swanleyhoop]

Read the last couple of posts on this thread here, too:

http://qprdot.org/viewtopic.php?p=518464#518464

Bristol City used an unlicensed agent and were only fined 30k -- no points deduction.
The issue is the false info one -- nothing else.