Instituto Not Paid Anything for Faurlin

[qblockpete]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/mar/10/alejandro-faurlin-qpr-instituto-cordoba

[Magic]

That instinctively sounds bad

[Morris]

Messy.

[stanley75]

I have become a bit of an anorak on the FA Reg and handbook and this is quite useful information. If it is true! Thought I'd share the fruits of this effort for what it's worth since facts seems to be in short supply and rumours are getting wilder. But it aint good news.

If instituto held his registration and received no money but money did change hands for his services then I am afraid it seems to me that is clearly 3rd party owning the economic interest according to the rules and it is a slam dunk breach. The rules we are said to have breached are comprehensive and clearly drafted. A breach is classified as misconduct in the FA rule book.

How it proceeds and the consequences of guilt are less clear. The fact of whether we breached or not will be determined by a bespoke Regulatory Authority set up by FA Commissioners. Given the seriousness of it it will be conducted by hearing. The punishments available if found in breach are very wide, and I guess that is what is causing some confusion about what we can and can't get done for. The punishments are (verbatim)

The Regulatory Commission shall have the power to impose any one or more of the
following penalties on the Alleged Offender:
(a) a reprimand and/or warning as to future conduct;
(b) a fine;
(c) suspension from all or any specified football activity from a date that the
Regulatory Commission shall order, permanently or for a stated period or number
of matches;
(d) the closure of a ground permanently or for a stated period;
(e) any order which may be made under the rules and regulations of a Competition in
which the Alleged Offender participates or is associated, which shall be deemed to
include the deduction of points and removal from a Competition at any stage of
any Playing Season;
(f) expulsion from a Competition;
(g) expulsion from membership of The Association or an Affiliated Association;
(h) such further or other penalty or order as it considers appropriate



The Regulatory Commission comes to a decision on majority and has almost total discretion on the penalty it levies. This and the fact that there is no close precedent to this case for these rules make it clear no one can know what the outcome will be. There is an appeal process.

Out of interest I am trying to see who the Commissioners named for the case might be but not sure it will make much difference.

[stanley75]

P.S - I meant to say (as has been said elsewhere avctually but the rule book confirms) the fact that the club may have done this in ignorance or by mistake does not prevent the charge of misconduct being proven. These oversights may be offered in mitigation before penalty is set but it will not provide any other comfort.

[Dale]

If the charges are proved, then QPR, clear leaders of the Championship, are considered almost certain to be docked points which could cost them promotion.

Not what I want to read

[swanleyhoop]

Not what I want to read

Sensationalism.
To use the phrase "almost certain" is real emotive journalistic bias -- it sells papers.
They have no more idea than we do and, if they did their research properly, would find out facts which make it "very unlikely".

[Goddard]

The question should be, "Does what QPR are alleged to have done warrant a points deduction, even if found guilty?"

The answer should be No. It would be totally out of proportion to our "crime".
In any sane world.

Should it (if proved guilty) warrant a big fine and a serious slap on the wrist? Or even a suspended points deduction?

Probably, yes. Although even that would still be harsh, IMO.
But this is The English F.A.
And very often... too often for my liking, logic doesn't seem to be their thing.

A points deduction for us right now could equate to a £50m fine. Of which The F.A would see f**k all of. That money would just go to Cardiff, or Norwich etc.. instead. Not The FA's coffers.

It would be in their interest to fine us a couple of million£, and have a suspended sentence hanging over us to ensure we didn't f*ck up again.
That way, they get some big money, and get to act all hard and flex their muscles.

But they are mentalists at Soho Square. They don't do "sane".
And that is my biggest worry.

[stanley75]

The question should be, "Does what QPR are alleged to have done warrant a points deduction, even if found guilty?"

The answer should be No. It would be totally out of proportion to our "crime".
In any sane world.

Should it (if proved guilty) warrant a big fine and a serious slap on the wrist? Or even a suspended points deduction?

Probably, yes. Although even that would still be harsh, IMO.
But this is The English F.A.
And very often... too often for my liking, logic doesn't seem to be their thing.

A points deduction for us right now could equate to a £50m fine. Of which The F.A would see f**k all of. That money would just go to Cardiff, or Norwich etc.. instead. Not The FA's coffers.

It would be in their interest to fine us a couple of million£, and have a suspended sentence hanging over us to ensure we didn't f*ck up again.
That way, they get some big money, and get to act all hard and flex their muscles.

But they are mentalists at Soho Square. They don't do "sane".
And that is my biggest worry.

I agree. The policy underlying the rules was to stop "hidden hands" having interests in players, and thus having influence over them. As well as just being good general governance. Unless someone can prove there was at the very least a risk of this or the reality then points seem harsh and even big cash looks harsh. They will have to bend the rules a fair bit for your idea of a suspended point deduction, however, so that probably isn't a runner. Sensible as it might be.

But as you say the worry is we are not in the business of sane or proportionate. Points much easier and clearer signal for them. Indeed you might argue that there have been mid-table seasons when we'd have happily taken the hit on points at this time of the year when we had nothing to play for rather than a big cash fine. They will try to make it a point that the current league position is irrelevant. Points are also easier to enforce throughout the League of course as the fine would be disproportionate on some clubs due to different financial situations.

We will have to see. All this digging has shown me is that they can do pretty much whatever they like.

[G.T.P]

[stanley75]

My last on the topic...promise.. but I said I'd post it so I will even though it is pretty dull.

Here are the RA members from which our panel will be drawn. I thought some might jump out but not really, not for me anyway. Though I seem to remember rumours about Elleray being Rangers I think that was the Harrow connection more than fact. They have to declare and are debarred by any interest anyway. The Judicial Panel is where the appellant body will be drawn.

Football Regulatory Authority
Kate Barker, Barry Bright (Chairman), Robert
Coar, Robbie Earle, David Edmunds, David
Elleray (Vice-Chairman), Geoff Lee, Perry Nove,
Peter Powell, Tony Sharples, Dr David Thompson
and Richard Tur.
Secretary: Claire Brewer.

Judicial Panel
Maurice Armstrong (Chairman), Ivor Beeks,
Duncan Bayley, Mike Benson, Barry Bright,
Peter Brown, Roger Burden, Roy Carter, Peter
Clayton, Peter Hough, Roger Howlett, Brian
Jones, Anthony Kleanthous, Mervyn Leggett,
Elaine Oram, Jack Pearce, Peter Powell, Billy
Thomson, Geoff Thompson, Richard Tur, Steve
Vasey and Thura Win.
Secretary: Mark Ives.