Jay Emmanuel-Thomas.....

[sirpiechucker]

No crisis in form,i never said that just WAY too many draws and goals have dried up over the past 2 months....Bednar and Roberts immediatly come to mind

Bednar scored fewer goals than either Hulse or Helguson last season so what's to say that if he were to sign he'd be a better option than what we already have.

Roberts has started the last 4 games for Blackburn and has scored twice and although he is clearly a better striker than either Hulse or HH he doesn't look likely to join us.

[Goddard]

No crisis in form,i never said that just WAY too many draws and goals have dried up over the past 2 months....Bednar and Roberts immediatly come to mind

I seriously rate Roberts, don't get me wrong, but......

Roberts is having a serious hissy fit with "Big Face Sam" because he's not starting at Blackburn, in The Prem.

Seeing as we only start with one real CF... can you imagine how he'd react to being a sub at Scunny on a cold day?

I tend to think we need a different option to the likes of Hulse, HH, Bednar and Roberts.... a pacy, clever little finisher rather than another traditional target man.

I'll leave it to NW to decide who that might be. But someone like Danny Graham or Aaron McLean would give us another option.
I'm sure we could all wish for better, but I'm just being realistic here.

[Rebel R's]

To steer a middle path here we do clearly have several out and out strikers as well as a wealth of attacking talent (eg players such as Tarabt and Smith). We also, quite clearly, have a v good overall Championship squad.

I think the question, Benny and others, is whether we have enough out and out strikers of sufficient quality. I was really impressed with Helguson until his injury and though he is not massively prolific I thought he did enough to bring others (tabs, mackie etc) to make the number nine position his own. As well as scoring a decent number of goals he was also earning penalties while his link up play was hard to fault.

I was also very excited by Hulse's signing as he has an excellent record - but SO FAR he has looked very poor (not saying he won't come good but either he is not match fit or he is seriously off form/ out of practice).

With radio silence on Helguson's condition (and a history of injury problems, plus his age) it would be cavalier to just assume he is going to be available for most of the rest of the season. Hulse isn't doing it and Mackie is apparently looking more like the player he has been for his entire career other than a two month spell when he first arrived. Ephraim, too, after an early flurry has looked terrible (and again as over the course of his Rangers career he has spent more time looking cold than hot, I'm not convinced he is going to suddenly come good).

So we are looking short of options. Agyman has done better as a sub than most (me included) expected and arguably Clark hasn't been given much of a chance; but I would need some convincing that either should feature very much in a team serious about promotion.

As such suggesting we might need strengthening up front is hardly outlandish. And I also think the point that we seem happier to strengthen in other areas than upfront is a fair one.

I respect the opinion of Benny, Sir Pie etc so I'd be interested if they disagree with the above and if so on what grounds. Many thanks.

CORRECT ,all true,but Bennyboy and the rest of the "happy cappies" "it will be all fine" gang will not like that post,WHY because it is true!

[G.T.P]

Very good post and an awful lot of common sense coming out in this 1 post.

agreed, a lot of common sense apart from this bit

As well as scoring a decent number of goals he was also earning penalties while his link up play was hard to fault.

cos if you are going to state earning/scoring penalties and goals as sepeate entitys, he didnt score a decent amount, cos two goals from open play wasnt really.

[sirpiechucker]

True Sir Pie but I think you answered your own point a few days ago when you recognised that we don't have a Nolan type midfield player who will score a hatful. At the moment our main goal threat is Tarabt and as many of his shots are from 40 odd yards I find it puzzling that good, sensible posters should apparently think that our current forward line doesn't need improving.

Birmingham just two seasons ago went up in 2nd place having scored just 54 goals. Their tight defence was the reason why they didn't need the elusive strikers and we this season have exactly the same thing. Only 3 players managed to score 5+ goals that season and between those 3 players they scored 29 goals between them in 46 matches. Helguson, Taraabt and Mackie have already scored 19 in just 17 games.

[stainrodisalegend]

Birmingham just two seasons ago went up in 2nd place having scored just 54 goals. Their tight defence was the reason why they didn't need the elusive strikers and we this season have exactly the same thing. Only 3 players managed to score 5+ goals that season and between those 3 players they scored 29 goals between them in 46 matches. Helguson, Taraabt and Mackie have already scored 19 in just 17 games.

I agree its perfectly possible that we MIGHT get away with our deficiencies up front - think the question is whether it is worth the risk when the board has already invested so much. One more genuinely decent, fit striker and you would get long odds on us not going up.

[G.T.P]

Birmingham just two seasons ago went up in 2nd place having scored just 54 goals. Their tight defence was the reason why they didn't need the elusive strikers and we this season have exactly the same thing. Only 3 players managed to score 5+ goals that season and between those 3 players they scored 29 goals between them in 46 matches. Helguson, Taraabt and Mackie have already scored 19 in just 17 games.

didnt phillips the ultimate poacher score late winning goals in nil nils and one ones week in week out, to take up a very well organised side that was just like we are now?
thats how i remember it.
he would still do that now for us by the way, would love him from jan till finish.

[sirpiechucker]

didnt phillips the ultimate poacher score late winning goals in nil nils and one ones week in week out, to take up a very well organised side that was just like we are now?
thats how i remember it.
he would still do that now for us by the way, would love him from jan till finish.

He scored a few but he did score just 14 in the whole season and not 20+ which everyone is so desperate for us to get.

[G.T.P]

14 is fine by me.
14 in 36 (and 22 in 35 to get west brom promoted the season before) is more than fine by me. thats a great a striker getting a club to the premiership imo.
we aint got a 14 man centre forward (7 in the draws would of resulted in 7 wins etc), thats the whole point of saying we could well do with a goal scoring centre forward.

[sirpiechucker]

To steer a middle path here we do clearly have several out and out strikers as well as a wealth of attacking talent (eg players such as Tarabt and Smith). We also, quite clearly, have a v good overall Championship squad.

I think the question, Benny and others, is whether we have enough out and out strikers of sufficient quality. I was really impressed with Helguson until his injury and though he is not massively prolific I thought he did enough to bring others (tabs, mackie etc) to make the number nine position his own. As well as scoring a decent number of goals he was also earning penalties while his link up play was hard to fault.

I was also very excited by Hulse's signing as he has an excellent record - but SO FAR he has looked very poor (not saying he won't come good but either he is not match fit or he is seriously off form/ out of practice).

With radio silence on Helguson's condition (and a history of injury problems, plus his age) it would be cavalier to just assume he is going to be available for most of the rest of the season. Hulse isn't doing it and Mackie is apparently looking more like the player he has been for his entire career other than a two month spell when he first arrived. Ephraim, too, after an early flurry has looked terrible (and again as over the course of his Rangers career he has spent more time looking cold than hot, I'm not convinced he is going to suddenly come good).

So we are looking short of options. Agyman has done better as a sub than most (me included) expected and arguably Clark hasn't been given much of a chance; but I would need some convincing that either should feature very much in a team serious about promotion.

As such suggesting we might need strengthening up front is hardly outlandish. And I also think the point that we seem happier to strengthen in other areas than upfront is a fair one.

I respect the opinion of Benny, Sir Pie etc so I'd be interested if they disagree with the above and if so on what grounds. Many thanks.

As I've said on other threads we are going through a period where we are missing players like Buzsaky and Helguson. Faurlin was injured for a few games, Orr is suspended as is Connolly. Ramage is out for the season and the lack of depth on the bench is hindering us at the moment. But once these players return and Rowlands and Hall get match fitness we have the depth to compete again. I've said numerous times that if this is our bad run then I'm really not concerned. Our defence is key. It's winning us points.

We could go out and sign us a striker who scores goals but our defence is stopping from needing to score 2 goals to win a match instead of just 1. We don't need a 20+ striker. Of course I'm concerned about HH's fitness and Hulse's form but if they both come back to their full potential then we have plenty of quality.

[sirpiechucker]

14 is fine by me.
14 is more than fine by me. we aint got a 14 man centre forward (7 in the draws would of resulted in 7 wins etc), thats the whole point of saying we could well do with a goal scoring centre forward.

14 is just 6 more than Mackie has now. Meaning Mackie has 29 games to score 6 goals. That isn't impossible. Just because a striker scores 14 or even 30 goals it doesn't mean he'll score them in the games you want him to score them in. It doesn't work that way.

[G.T.P]

14 is just 6 more than Mackie has now. Meaning Mackie has 29 games to score 6 goals. That isn't impossible. Just because a striker scores 14 or even 30 goals it doesn't mean he'll score them in the games you want him to score them in. It doesn't work that way.

i did a bit of stat digging and edited since you quoted me.

but listen, i cant go through this with you anymore, cos you just cant or wont get it. i dont care if mackie or even paddy kenny scores 50 goals (well of course id love it but you know what i mean), thats irrelevant as we would still benefit massively from an actual centre forward that scored goals as well as a winger or midfielder that scores loads as well.
thats their job and a good one can actually be the difference between winning or losing the close tight games. (which with warnock as manager we will always be involved in)
im out.

[stainrodisalegend]

As I've said on other threads we are going through a period where we are missing players like Buzsaky and Helguson. Faurlin was injured for a few games, Orr is suspended as is Connolly. Ramage is out for the season and the lack of depth on the bench is hindering us at the moment. But once these players return and Rowlands and Hall get match fitness we have the depth to compete again. I've said numerous times that if this is our bad run then I'm really not concerned. Our defence is key. It's winning us points.

We could go out and sign us a striker who scores goals but our defence is stopping from needing to score 2 goals to win a match instead of just 1. We don't need a 20+ striker. Of course I'm concerned about HH's fitness and Hulse's form but if they both come back to their full potential then we have plenty of quality.

I don't think our opinions are too far apart as I agree with much of that - but do think there is a big "if" contained in your last sentence. And that becomes more criticial still if you worry about the chances of Mackie and Ephraim recovering their form and Buz his fitness.

[sirpiechucker]

i did a bit of stat digging and edited since you quoted me.

but listen, i cant go through this with you anymore, cos you just cant or wont get it. i dont care if mackie or even paddy kenny scores 50 goals (well of course id love it but you know what i mean), thats irrelevant as we would still benefit massively from an actual centre forward that scored goals as well as a winger or midfielder that scores loads as well.
thats their job and a good one can actually be the difference between winning or losing the close tight games. (which with warnock as manager we will always be involved in)
im out.

So we sit 2nd. Undefeated after 17 games and we are the 3rd highest scorers in the division and have the best defence in the division but that's still not enough? We've been at the bottom the very bottom admin, league 1 and had to watch dire football where we'd be lucky to see a goal let alone a win but still for some it isn't enough. If that makes me a Happy whatever then I just don't care.

[Shania]

Doesnt all teams need a fox in the box?