The question has been asked, about letting Millwall fans out...

[Goddard]

Last season, after the Swansea game, I asked about this.
A few coppers were puzzled (and a bit pissed off) why the Swansea fans weren't held back after the game to allow the crowds to clear from SA Road.
And the Cardiff game was a couple of weeks later.
Same thing happened.
I bring my young son to the games, and it is a bit scary for him and other kids to walk through all that sh*t after a game.

Anyway, I rang the club and spoke to a bloke called Phillip Lawrence, Deputy Safety Officer at QPR and asked him why certain away fans weren't held back for a while.
His main defence of this was the safety of the stewards inside the ground for 10/15 mins after the game, and if I was that concerned about my young son... then I should leave the ground early, or stay in the ground for a while after the game, to let it all clear.

Quote: There will be a large Police input for this game with great emphasis on the safety of all supporters. If you still have doubts about the possibility of confrontation with CCFC supporters and Police, for your own safety and that of your children I would consider leaving earlier or taking your time to leave the stadium.

Enjoy the game.

Kind regards
Phillip Lawrence

Deputy Safety Officer Queens Park Rangers FC


So that was the official answer from the club, if anyone is still wondering.
They seem more worried about the stewards inside, than the fans/families outside... and it seems to me that once the crowds are outside the ground, they aren't too bothered about it.
I don't dig out QPR for the sake of it, but when I see a 12 year old kid in a QPR shirt getting punched by a 25 year old Millwall kn*b, and an old woman in tears, shaking because she's terrified by what's happening less than 6 yards away from her.... the club have to take a good look at themselves here.


If anyone wants to question this, then his email is: phillipl@qpr.co.uk
Feel free, it's up to you.

Personally, I think it stinks. Buck passing.
If fans want to have a row, fair enough.. you can't stop it.
Same as many fans, I've not always been a complete angel in the past.... but you can and should do everything to avoid kids and families getting caught up in it.

How many more times??

[G.T.P]

its obvious they dont keep the fans in cos of the safety of the stewards, and as horrible as it is they are right. the club can get sued to shite if 3000 millwall do the 15 or so stewards.
outside its not their problem its the polices.
the only way to rectify this is to get 15 of the rangers who love a ruck to be stewards those days/nights against wall/cardiff/swansea and keep the away fans in for 15 minutes while the peaceful supporters get home in peace.

[W12_Ranger]

Thanks Goddard for posting this I knew this was down to the club protecting the Stewards and not there own fans.

I would like to hear Mr Lawrences views on the women and children chased back into the ground at the end of the match by Millwall thugs.

The man should lose his job for such a disregard for the clubs supporters.

[m_cooper]

how come at the old ninian park we were kept in for around 40 minutes after the game;if they can do it,so can we

[W12pHilOsOPher]

Why, also, should QPR fans, especially with kids, be advised to leave early when they've done nothing wrong, paid for their tickets and could well miss a deciding goal as a result?

[stanley75]

I think part of it is financial. I seem to recall reading (I think in relation to the virtual riot at Villa Park) that clubs determine (with advice from OB) what games require OB inside and which don't. And if they OB operate inside the ground the club have to pay more. Surely the OB would be inside to look after the stewards (FFS!) at any of the obvious games. So this is a poor excuse not a reason - either the stweards man up and/or the OB are drafted in to keep order. This is, after all, the reason both of them are paid.

[Bluehoop]

Thanks Goddard - I will be corresponding with him but expect similar response, to the effect that we, the paying public count for far less than the stewards, who charge a small fortune for the contract on match days

[Goddard]

The stupid thing is that a few hundred QPR fans (myself included) were held back by the Police on SA Road for a good half an hour last season, to allow Cardiff fans to get to their coaches! Before we could make our way home.
I'm sure others were there too, or did I dream that?!


Tail wags the dog at QPR.

[Fozzieboy]

I bet you it has something to do with the safety of your employees.... I would guess that they must protect people in your employment.

However, to me the whole situation is crazy!

[acricketer]

It's certainly not the answer you want to hear from the club and essentially "The ball's in your court". There are a lot of potential liabilities that the club has to deal with including the H&S of its employees. How does that stack up against the H&S of its customers is the debate.

I think that they have gone for a policy that works for 80% of the games and accept (not explicitly) that there will be some matches where crowd supervision is inadequate. As a policy it is still far short of what you would expect when the young, old and infirm cannot be protected. Are they waiting for someone to die before they will act? Two darts in a chest is fine what if they had pierced a major artery.

Another question is how much responsibility should a business take for some of the ills of society? What sort of disclaimers are associated with attending a match? "Watching QPR could Kill YOU or Seriously Damage Your Health"

It is certainly worth asking questions to prompt improved safety and enjoyment for all.

[stanley75]

Yes, we were also locked in the Bok to let Swansea pass (not a great hardship perhaps but hey)

[Nodge70]

The final say on ALL safety matter inside and outside football stadia reside with the police. They can decide to hold fans back if they deem the situation outside the ground requires that course of action.

The problem that policy engenders is "how long"? Any more than 10 minutes and the visitors are likely to get riled and put officers and stewards in danger. Any less and the crowds outside would not be dispersed. You also have the situation whereby if rival fans know that one side will be held back, the other will wait around in concealed areas to attack.

It is financial. The police would have (hopefully) called this game as a Category C - their highest alert for potential disorder - and the club would have had to staff up stewards accordingly. Additionally, as the Met continue to pursue for "full cost recovery" from football clubs for policing OUTSIDE and internally, the cost of such decisions is a huge factor for clubs.

I don't think Phillip Lawrence's e-mail is particularly well worded or considerate but I don't believe the club would do anything to intentionally endanger supporters

[sirpiechucker]

I bet you it has something to do with the safety of your employees.... I would guess that they must protect people in your employment.

However, to me the whole situation is crazy!

True but how many of us work in organisations where we allow thousands of people (non employees) into our work?

Secondly, my organisation is liable for anyone granted access to the building i.e. everytime reception allows a visitor in through the door s/he is our responsibility. If s/he were to get injured we are responsible. I'd assume Loftus Road is exactly the same.

[Goddard]

The final say on ALL safety matter inside and outside football stadia reside with the police. They can decide to hold fans back if they deem the situation outside the ground requires that course of action.

The problem that policy engenders is "how long"? Any more than 10 minutes and the visitors are likely to get riled and put officers and stewards in danger. Any less and the crowds outside would not be dispersed. You also have the situation whereby if rival fans know that one side will be held back, the other will wait around in concealed areas to attack.

It is financial. The police would have (hopefully) called this game as a Category C - their highest alert for potential disorder - and the club would have had to staff up stewards accordingly. Additionally, as the Met continue to pursue for "full cost recovery" from football clubs for policing OUTSIDE and internally, the cost of such decisions is a huge factor for clubs.

I don't think Phillip Lawrence's e-mail is particularly well worded or considerate but I don't believe the club would do anything to intentionally endanger supporters

Nor would I.. but with every passing incident, they don't seem to learn from this, and it becomes more suspect.
Like you say Nodge.... it's about £££.

And it shouldn't be.

[PompeyRanger]

Ok i will now throw the Cat amoungst the Pigieons, Why the hell should QPR, police and wrap every supporter in cotton wool.

They pay Stewards to do that inside the ground and most of the time when ever you are inside the stadium you are kept safe.

At the end of the day there are bad people in this world that will fight throw stuff, etc.
You have to either be strong or clever to get away from it.

I personally think the club did well, told everyone all the bars would be open at the end of the game. You gone for a drink then left after the trouble had subsided.

Think you should point your Figure of blame at the police will there woefull policing tactics.