Goals from Midfield

[sirpiechucker]

I've said time and time again that I would love us to have a quartet of strikers who are proven goal scorers or goal makers. If the latest quote from Warnock is right and he is only looking to bring in one more genuine striker there will be plenty of moans and groans about our lack of talent up front. Blindly or otherwise I'll trust that Warnock knows what he is doing. He has a lot more experience and success at football management than I have had. It is very difficult to persuade quality strikers to sign for a club which already has a number of good other strikers. I understand Forest were able to persuade a number of strikers to join them last season when they already had the likes of Tyson and Earnshaw but they are an exception to the rule. The only other teams who have a number of good strikers are the teams who spend millions on wages (Manchester City). Even the likes of Manchester United and Chelsea don’t have strength in depth when it comes to strikers. I don’t believe that Clarke will start regularly for us and will mainly be an impact sub whilst Mackie gives us an option of playing 4-3-3 with him out wide or 4-4-2 alongside another front man or on the left wing. If Warnock does only sign one more forward it will be because he’ll believe his side will score enough from midfield. If Ambrose does indeed sign then we will have added a player who last season scored plenty of goals from midfield.

Highest scorers 2009/10
Newcastle 90 goals
WBA 89 goals
Blackpool 74 goals
Cardiff 73 goals
Reading 68 goals

Top scorers in each of those teams:
Kevin Nolan (Midfielder) and Andy Carroll (Striker) – 17 goals
Chris Brunt (Midfielder) and Graham Dorrans (Midfielder) – 13 goals
Charlie Adam (Midfielder) – 18 goals
Peter Whittingham (Midfielder) – 22 goals
Gylfi Sigurdsson (Midfielder) – 17 goals

Before I get accused of twisting this information I will point out that Chopra did indeed score 18 league goals but as shown above the 3 teams promoted plus the losing finalist all had midfielders as their top goal scorer last season. Darren Ambrose scored 15 league goals from midfield for Palace which was 4 more than Roman Bednar and 6 more than Simon Cox scored for West Brom. Charlie Adam scored 6 more than Brett Ormerod whilst Sigurdsson scored 7 goals more than Simon Church. So other than Carroll all of the high scoring teams last season including 4 of the most successful ones relied on goals from midfield. If we do sign Ambrose, along with Buzsaky and Mackie we should score plenty from midfield. Would I like us to have Hulse, Henderson, Maynard and Hooper to choose from? Of course I would. But if we start the season with Warnock in charge and the likes of Ambrose and Mackie in the side who scored 23 league goals between them last season we don’t desperately need 2 or 3 more strikers.

[Jeffro]

I've said time and time again that I would love us to have a quartet of strikers who are proven goal scorers or goal makers. If the latest quote from Warnock is right and he is only looking to bring in one more genuine striker there will be plenty of moans and groans about our lack of talent up front. Blindly or otherwise I'll trust that Warnock knows what he is doing. He has a lot more experience and success at football management than I have had. It is very difficult to persuade quality strikers to sign for a club which already has a number of good other strikers. I understand Forest were able to persuade a number of strikers to join them last season when they already had the likes of Tyson and Earnshaw but they are an exception to the rule. The only other teams who have a number of good strikers are the teams who spend millions on wages (Manchester City). Even the likes of Manchester United and Chelsea don’t have strength in depth when it comes to strikers. I don’t believe that Clarke will start regularly for us and will mainly be an impact sub whilst Mackie gives us an option of playing 4-3-3 with him out wide or 4-4-2 alongside another front man or on the left wing. If Warnock does only sign one more forward it will be because he’ll believe his side will score enough from midfield. If Ambrose does indeed sign then we will have added a player who last season scored plenty of goals from midfield.

Highest scorers 2009/10
Newcastle 90 goals
WBA 89 goals
Blackpool 74 goals
Cardiff 73 goals
Reading 68 goals

Top scorers in each of those teams:
Kevin Nolan (Midfielder) and Andy Carroll (Striker) – 17 goals
Chris Brunt (Midfielder) and Graham Dorrans (Midfielder) – 13 goals
Charlie Adam (Midfielder) – 18 goals
Peter Whittingham (Midfielder) – 22 goals
Gylfi Sigurdsson (Midfielder) – 17 goals

Before I get accused of twisting this information I will point out that Chopra did indeed score 18 league goals but as shown above the 3 teams promoted plus the losing finalist all had midfielders as their top goal scorer last season. Darren Ambrose scored 15 league goals from midfield for Palace which was 4 more than Roman Bednar and 6 more than Simon Cox scored for West Brom. Charlie Adam scored 6 more than Brett Ormerod whilst Sigurdsson scored 7 goals more than Simon Church. So other than Carroll all of the high scoring teams last season including 4 of the most successful ones relied on goals from midfield. If we do sign Ambrose, along with Buzsaky and Mackie we should score plenty from midfield. Would I like us to have Hulse, Henderson, Maynard and Hooper to choose from? Of course I would. But if we start the season with Warnock in charge and the likes of Ambrose and Mackie in the side who scored 23 league goals between them last season we don’t desperately need 2 or 3 more strikers.

Fair point Sir Pie, though Newcastle and WBA both had quality Full backs providing width and allowing midfielders to push on, they also had a proven quality target man to be a focal point and allow the midfielders to play off them.

We have Clarke, Ramage and possibly Clint Hill.

You cant polish a turd.

[Bluehoop]

Or maybe he's banking on a hatfull from Vine and Aggy

[stainrodisalegend]

Its a clever argument and well researched but you know and I know there will - as things stand - be lots of "why oh why" posts through the season saying why yet again are we considerably weaker up front than in midfield. I'm also puzzled by your suggestion that its difficult to attract two more quality strikers because they will somehow feel intimidated by the prospect of being left out in favour of mackie and, er, clarke. Hmm...

[ttysonr]

very interesting stats sirpie, always value your posts. the worrying thing for us though is how we're going to reconcile the need to play goalscoring midfielders (emphasis on NEED if we don't have goalscoring strikers) with warnock's desire to play steel through the middle. on top of that we're now less routledge and tarbs - at least 20 goals between them in a season. we all know buzsaky can score, but how he plays effectively alongside ambrose (assuming we get him) i do not know. can't see many other goals coming form our current midfield setup at the moment, we don't really have any good wingers! cook, hogan, balanta and mackie have a lot to prove! i'm far from pessimistic about next season, funnily enough, even with our current squad i think warnock will push for the playoffs, but i'm just not sure we can bank on midfield goals at the moment - we'll need just as many from the rest of the pitch.

[stainrodisalegend]

very interesting stats sirpie, always value your posts. the worrying thing for us though is how we're going to reconcile the need to play goalscoring midfielders (emphasis on NEED if we don't have goalscoring strikers) with warnock's desire to play steel through the middle. on top of that we're now less routledge and tarbs - at least 20 goals between them in a season. we all know buzsaky can score, but how he plays effectively alongside ambrose (assuming we get him) i do not know. can't see many other goals coming form our current midfield setup at the moment, we don't really have any good wingers! cook, hogan, balanta and mackie have a lot to prove! i'm far from pessimistic about next season, funnily enough, even with our current squad i think warnock will push for the playoffs, but i'm just not sure we can bank on midfield goals at the moment - we'll need just as many from the rest of the pitch.

Good post.

As for Jeffro's remark re polishing, I guess you could try but it prob wdn't be terribly rewarding...

[sirpiechucker]

Its a clever argument and well researched but you know and I know there will - as things stand - be lots of "why oh why" posts through the season saying why yet again are we considerably weaker up front than in midfield. I'm also puzzled by your suggestion that its difficult to attract two more quality strikers because they will somehow feel intimidated by the prospect of being left out in favour of mackie and, er, clarke. Hmm...

Maybe because we have a manager who historically has played with just one big man upfront and lots of midfielders. If you look at Warnock's sides through the years he rarely plays 4-4-2 with two proper forwards. If we do go out and sign a Hulse or a Henderson having already signed Clarke and Mackie plus have Vine, Pellicori, Agyemang, German and Balanta on the books other players might think where do I fit in?

Unless we can shift some of the deadwood Warnock is stuck with the likes of Vine, Helguson, Pellicori, Agyemang etc. He won't want a massive squad and may have to rely on the likes of Vine and Agyemang because he can't have the 4 or 5 strikers of HIS choosing. Until the day where all 23 men were brought to the club by Warnock we may have to rely on goal scoring midfielders.

[stainrodisalegend]

But my assumption was we would off-load all that dead wood you mention. If not - and I take your point about the size of squad - think that looks a spectacularly average front line for a team with delusions of promotion.

[ollyhoops]

Well lets see who comes in as Warnock is by no means finished spending yet.

Expect another 4/5 players incoming.

[sirpiechucker]

But my assumption was we would off-load all that dead wood you mention. If not - and I take your point about the size of squad - think that looks a spectacularly average front line for a team with delusions of promotion.

Neither of us know what deals our players are on and what clauses they have in their contracts but for argument sake lets say that the likes of Agyemang, Vine, Pellicori are all on £10k pw it would cost us about £1m per player to pay these guys off as they all have a couple of years left on their contract.

We'd effectively be writing off £3m which then couldn't be spent on new players.

[Morris]

Neither of us know what deals our players are on and what clauses they have in their contracts but for argument sake lets say that the likes of Agyemang, Vine, Pellicori are all on £10k pw it would cost us about £1m per player to pay these guys off as they all have a couple of years left on their contract.

We'd effectively be writing off £3m which then couldn't be spent on new players.

Sell them then, no need to release them and pay up their contracts.

[sirpiechucker]

Sell them then, no need to release them and pay up their contracts.

Easier said then done.

Who can afford to pay Agyemang's salary? Only the likes of Hull, Burnley and maybe Middlesbrough but can you see any of them buying him?

Same can be said about Pellicori and Vine.

[Morris]

Doubt Pellicori is on big money coming from Seria B.

[stainrodisalegend]

I fear Sir Pie is right Morris. And without re-hashing a v tired debate about our esteemed former DoF it does underline how many poor - as well as some very good - decisions he made. News of players being off-loaded is as much of a triumph as news of players arriving as it does indeed free up places for Warnock. But think this is why our early transfer activity has sparked so much disquiet as it would appear - and yes let us put in all the caveats about Warnock being an excellent manager and knowing best etc - we are adding yet more mediocrity to an already very mediocre squad with the exception of faurlin and a handful of others.

[Morris]

Also Agyemang only came from Preston so i doubt he is on massive wages, just got a ridiculously long contract.