Comparisons

[topperharley]

My Dad is a Man Utd fan so naturally i follow their goings on.

I can't help but feel we are in a very similar situation, all be it without the success of the past. Plenty of manager upheaval, squad turnover, ownership question marks, back room changes and a lack of palying identity, despite some short spells of looking good.

I wonder how much we share with them now, the writing was on the wall for Ten Hag, despite a positive end to the season, tactically clueless and unable to get anything from a squad that has enough clout to be in the top 6.

I'd argue we are in the exact same position. It's so frustrating as i think Marti has the tools to be playing far better football than we are.

How long can this go on before he has to go? Do we stick at it until Christmas at least?

Does he have the tools? Looking at who left over the summer i'd argue Begovic was the only one we miss now. Willock maybe on his good days but Dembele has filled that inconsistent hole it seems.

[FurtiveFox]

I'd say there are some similarities. For some years now United, despite spending money, have been unable to play as a team. They are disjointed and lack cohesion and steel. For the money they have spent they should be a lot better than they are. I think they kept Ten Hag for as long as they did as keeping changing managers has not worked and they have had trophy winners amongst those who you would expect to be able to get a team playing to it's potential and they haven't so how do you break the cycle? What is the missing ingredient? Would even a Sir Alex in his prime be able to fix their problems?

People rightly point out Arteta has not won anything but what he has been able to do at Arsenal is get them playing good football consistently which is something they have been unable to do for a long time now, even under Emery and look how well he has done at Villa. What has he done right that predecessors didn't? Yes they have spent money but overall they seem to have spent well under him as well as having some younger players coming through. They play in a certain way as a team.

Back to us and yes we do not have money to spend but we have lacked cohesion for a long time now and that shows in how we play, particularly going forwards. This isn't a new thing even when Chair and Willock were on fire and masking it to an extent. Who could we bring in who would change that? I suspect that like Utd our problems run far deeper than who sits in the dug out and will take a long time to see meaningful change. My hope is we started that a year ago with our clean sweep of staff and we just need to grit our teeth and go through the pain while we see if these changes will bear fruit. To abandon that and go back to how we did things before will only result in more of the same.

Stating the obvious but the recruitment this season was clearly an attempt to bring players in for a certain style of play which the club is looking to play at every level. The 'dream' was to see evidence of that on the pitch whilst being realistic on our expectations. What we have seen is a car crash leaving us just as bad as at this stage last season. Perhaps we tried to make on pitch changes too quickly. Should we have split our recruitment between solid Championship signings and new style types rather than all the latter? My personal view is yes. We should have built on our solidity last season, evolution not revolution. I see little point in sacking Marti now, it would not achieve anything. He has a big test now to turn things around. Unlike last season when he came in to sort out someone else's mess this time it's his own mess (not entirely to blame I appreciate) and that does make it harder. What I want to see is a change on the pitch so we play to the players we have, not like we think we have Barcelona players. That means creating a solid spine as like last season to make us hard to beat and look to nick wins and draws more often than not. Last couple of games have looked a bit more like that but we need to carry that forward and get some points on board. If we can do that then incremental changes in January and next summer. Some of the players we brought in have every chance of coming good long term so not writing anyone off just yet. Still stunned we left ourselves with just two first choice strikers with next to no experience of this country or league. Even an old war horse as back up and competition would have been something. I keep telling myself they must have had one or two lined up and it went wrong last minute. No other credible explanation for it particularly as Dykes was allowed to leave for peanuts.

So in answer to the question I'd stick with Marti and see how this season plays out. If we are in danger of getting out of sight by Christmas and it looks like he has lost the dressing room then maybe reluctantly look to make a change then but it has to be one the club thinks will make a difference. There has to be a plan, not just sack and keep repeating the cycle. Hasn't worked for Man Utd and do not think it would work for us.

[SheepRanger]

It's nothing to do with the managers, despite spending money it is a near impossible task to replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rudd VN, Cole, Schmeichel, Stam and Keane etc The market has gone bonkers but the equivilent class of players are now playing for City, who can afford them through dubious finances.

A new manager should get Utd into the top 4 but they are miles away from being tittle contenders under any manager. Liverpool will soon find this out when Salah moves on.

As soon as the class of 92 had retired, Fergie retired.

[topperharley]

It's nothing to do with the managers, despite spending money it is a near impossible task to replace the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rudd VN, Cole, Schmeichel, Stam and Keane etc The market has gone bonkers but the equivilent class of players are now playing for City, who can afford them through dubious finances.

A new manager should get Utd into the top 4 but they are miles away from being tittle contenders under any manager. Liverpool will soon find this out when Salah moves on.

As soon as the class of 92 had retired, Fergie retired.

More a different kind of game / player, united have spent far more then City the last few years. But i get your point, most of the top clubs have dubious financials i'm sure.

[WeAreQPR12]

this thread, guess we're all bored at work but wow!

[Abseits]

EFL managers average 11 months in post. That's a fact. Once every decade a manager will leave a club on a high on his own terms after several years in post. These are managerial gods like Ferguson or Klopp. The rest get sacked or jump before they're pushed. They don't even have to be particularly awful or hapless, if club appears to be treading water the manager WILL get the boot. Marti is no different - that's the situation he's working in.

[topperharley]

EFL managers average 11 months in post. That's a fact. Once every decade a manager will leave a club on a high on his own terms after several years in post. These are managerial gods like Ferguson or Klopp. The rest get sacked or jump before they're pushed. They don't even have to be particularly awful or hapless, if club appears to be treading water the manager WILL get the boot. Marti is no different - that's the situation he's working in.

I wonder how invested the board are in Nourry and Marti, or how much Nourry is in Marti depending on how they've set this up.

These signings, how much has influence has Nourry / Marti had? 50/50?

As it stands, since Marti came on i'd say only Dembele has been somewhat a success.

Saito could be, Andersen has shown some signs, Nardi looks ok but i feel he's got a ways to go to command the defence.

Are the new signings not working because of Marti for whatever reason?

Point is, does all the blame for the frankly terrible start to the season fall at Marti's feet? I kind of feel it does because we look terrible. We 100% had identity and purpose under him last season, and it's seemingly all gone now.

We really want him to do well but he's 12 months (to the day) into his tenure and we are officially, by the league table, right back where we started.

[WeAreQPR12]

I think you should book some holiday mate.

[DJ Hooper W12]

What remains constant in our last few seasons of being poor is the players. Surely every manager can’t be useless for me it’s more about attitude and ability of those on the pitch. Effort definitely better this season but quality sadly missing To keep changing manager because that’s the easy option not the answer. As seen at Utd since fergie left

[WeAreQPR12]

What remains constant in our last few seasons of being poor is the players. Surely every manager can’t be useless for me it’s more about attitude and ability of those on the pitch. Effort definitely better this season but quality sadly missing To keep changing manager because that’s the easy option not the answer. As seen at Utd since fergie left

Bit of common sense hooper. Tbh plenty saying that Marti isn't untouchable but that's just an excuse to stick the knife into his back. I actually think toppers attitude to the manager is highly insulting. Not one poster has actually given me a name for a manager out there that would see us fans get excited about.

[DJ Hooper W12]

Yes unfortunately it’s majority rule. It’s happened at a lot of clubs where complacency sets in and only a brave massive clear out makes a change. Obviously we don’t have premier league money but l don’t think we have progressed at all in the last few seasons and our current position backs that up. It’s not going to happen overnight but where we are now makes really difficult to see a bit of light. Mid table would be amazing. Is that too much to ask of a club this size

[topperharley]

Bit of common sense hooper. Tbh plenty saying that Marti isn't untouchable but that's just an excuse to stick the knife into his back. I actually think toppers attitude to the manager is highly insulting. Not one poster has actually given me a name for a manager out there that would see us fans get excited about.

Insulting? Get a grip.

Merely pointing out a similarity i see in another club. We're struggling, and as much as i like Marti, he's digging a hole that's getting harder and harder to get out of. I can't think of anyone better either, doesn't change the fact we're currently poor.

We're 23rd in the table.

We were 23rd in the table when he took charge.

He needs to turn this around or he's going to end up out the door no matter what you think.

[cross it Dave]

Spot on Topper

[WeAreQPR12]

Just given you a sarcastic like Dave.

[cross it Dave]

You little tinker