Footballs Finances, Our Owners, and Stuff....

[Goddard]

(a bit long, sorry!)


I was driving home last night, and listened to Radio 5. There was an interview with David Sullivan, and he was talking about the state of finances within the Premier League, and The Championship.

Some of what he said last night:

He told the Tony Livesey programme on Radio Five Live:
"Some clubs, if you saw what we have seen about the accounts... we've looked at 20 clubs since we've left Birmingham. The state of the finance of football is frightening, that's all I can say."
He continued: "I think there's a possibility one (Premier League) club could go. I think probably odds on one club will go.

"There's several Championship sides absolutely on the line at the moment. It's a question of whether they can sell players for sufficient money to stay alive.
"But there's not a lot of money out there to buy players at the moment. Even some of the clubs who you think have got money really haven't got much money to spend on players."


A bit of an eye-opener. Scary stuff, and probably not far from the truth... Which brings me on to our current owners.
Compared to most clubs in our division, and probably above, we are in a lucky position. We have backers with decent money behind them, and as long as they are around... we are safe in comparison to many clubs.

As someone who has been very critical of the policies of FB, that might sound like a contradiction... but I think people do get the wrong end of the stick when they see critics of FB, and assume that I and others just expect the owners to go out and splash millions on big-name players, and "do a Chelsea".
Wrong.

What I am most frustrated about is the idea that raising ST prices to the highest in the league, and not communicating with the fans in any way is the right way to approach things. It has contributed to the falling gates and atmosphere at Loftus Road. And actually cost the club money.

Hiring journeymen or novice managers, and then losing them within a matter of weeks has cost the club money.
The scattergun "randomly plug the gaps" approach to recruiting players, and ending up with the longest squad list I can see in this league (look at the back of any match programme this season for evidence) has wasted hundreds of thousands - maybe millions(?) of pounds. Some of the lengthy contracts handed out to players like Agyemang, Pellicori and Alberti has cost the club big money, and just defy belief.
The amount of agents fees handed out for the loan of players like Steven Reid, Parejo, Tommy Williams, Damiano Tomassi, Rhys Taylor, and loads more has cost the club money.
I'd love to see Kitson come to Rangers, and Cousin could be a good addition too... but that would mean that we would have 4 forwards at QPR, all on loan! (including Taarabt).

So rather than people saying "be grateful we're not Luton"... how about wondering how the hell we're going to stop wasting precious cash, and ending up like them? I don't want our owners to waste cash, and splash millions on even more players, and hire managers on a regular basis, only to sack/lose them - and start the whole thing off again.

I want something that will not only get the club pointing in the right direction and unified with the fans, but also would SAVE money, and get the crowds up.

That is.... invest in a proven manager in the summer (I'd love that to be Curbishley, you insert your own name). Trust him, support him.
Pay him what he's PROVEN he's worth, set him a strict budget, nothing massive, just competitive. In the current climate, that's not mega-millions. Set him targets, sit back and let him do his job freely. If he fails in a set timescale, then cheerio. Fair enough.
Stop this "Sporting Director" nonsense - it doesn't work.

Don't put the prices up anymore, that would be suicide. Get the kids in every week, cheap.
Communicate with the supporters, honestly and openly. You'd be amazed how that would help.

Trim this squad right down to 25 players (it's 32+ at the moment), get scouting for players who are on the up, who have a sell-on potential, who are hungry to impress and achieve, who are not all rejects from Prem Clubs. That young lad from Scotland is an example. Scout them properly.
Get a proper progressive youth system in place (Paul Hart?). Balanta and Langley isn't much of a feeder over 10 years is it? Go to West Ham and learn from the masters of that, if need be.

Use the loan system to our advantage, rather than Hull's or Stoke's, by sending our young talent out to clubs, so they can experience League Football and improve.

I don't want us to waste money anymore, that interview with Sullivan should be taken very seriously.
But we are in a very lucky position where we could invest in the future, without having to sell everything that isn't nailed down.

I don't want "Flav Out", but I just desperately want him to wake up, and change his strategy of how to run a football club... MY football club.


And, to go right back to the start of this post..... STOP WASTING MONEY.

[qblockpete]

Loans can work for and against you..

Before they came who would you have bought??

Watson or Simpson??

We have more chance of buying Simpson at the end of this season, then we did at the start. All teams have players that are bad buys, the trouble is in the main we only know about our team, but I can assure you that Boro, WBA, Newcastle and if we spent time on their boards, you would see the same arguments. Newcastle too had Harewood on loan, but have not been able to buy him for example and they had to get rid of a number of players, feel we may have to do the same.

Always will be arguments about Ageymang and Pellicori, and of course that shows the imperfections of never being able to get 25 players that are all fantastic and fit in/

The underlying problem is we are 10th and being asked to pay more, that leads to inevitable frustrations, where scapegoats are needed to validate an argument.

[qpr48]

(a bit long, sorry!)


I was driving home last night, and listened to Radio 5. There was an interview with David Sullivan, and he was talking about the state of finances within the Premier League, and The Championship.

Some of what he said last night:

He told the Tony Livesey programme on Radio Five Live:
"Some clubs, if you saw what we have seen about the accounts... we've looked at 20 clubs since we've left Birmingham. The state of the finance of football is frightening, that's all I can say."
He continued: "I think there's a possibility one (Premier League) club could go. I think probably odds on one club will go.

"There's several Championship sides absolutely on the line at the moment. It's a question of whether they can sell players for sufficient money to stay alive.
"But there's not a lot of money out there to buy players at the moment. Even some of the clubs who you think have got money really haven't got much money to spend on players."


A bit of an eye-opener. Scary stuff, and probably not far from the truth... Which brings me on to our current owners.
Compared to most clubs in our division, and probably above, we are in a lucky position. We have backers with decent money behind them, and as long as they are around... we are safe in comparison to many clubs.

As someone who has been very critical of the policies of FB, that might sound like a contradiction... but I think people do get the wrong end of the stick when they see critics of FB, and assume that I and others just expect the owners to go out and splash millions on big-name players, and "do a Chelsea".
Wrong.

What I am most frustrated about is the idea that raising ST prices to the highest in the league, and not communicating with the fans in any way is the right way to approach things. It has contributed to the falling gates and atmosphere at Loftus Road. And actually cost the club money.

Hiring journeymen or novice managers, and then losing them within a matter of weeks has cost the club money.
The scattergun "randomly plug the gaps" approach to recruiting players, and ending up with the longest squad list I can see in this league (look at the back of any match programme this season for evidence) has wasted hundreds of thousands - maybe millions(?) of pounds. Some of the lengthy contracts handed out to players like Agyemang, Pellicori and Alberti has cost the club big money, and just defy belief.
The amount of agents fees handed out for the loan of players like Steven Reid, Parejo, Tommy Williams, Damiano Tomassi, Rhys Taylor, and loads more has cost the club money.
I'd love to see Kitson come to Rangers, and Cousin could be a good addition too... but that would mean that we would have 4 forwards at QPR, all on loan! (including Taarabt).

So rather than people saying "be grateful we're not Luton"... how about wondering how the hell we're going to stop wasting precious cash, and ending up like them? I don't want our owners to waste cash, and splash millions on even more players, and hire managers on a regular basis, only to sack/lose them - and start the whole thing off again.

I want something that will not only get the club pointing in the right direction and unified with the fans, but also would SAVE money, and get the crowds up.

That is.... invest in a proven manager in the summer (I'd love that to be Curbishley, you insert your own name). Trust him, support him.
Pay him what he's PROVEN he's worth, set him a strict budget, nothing massive, just competitive. In the current climate, that's not mega-millions. Set him targets, sit back and let him do his job freely. If he fails in a set timescale, then cheerio. Fair enough.
Stop this "Sporting Director" nonsense - it doesn't work.

Don't put the prices up anymore, that would be suicide. Get the kids in every week, cheap.
Communicate with the supporters, honestly and openly. You'd be amazed how that would help.

Trim this squad right down to 25 players (it's 32+ at the moment), get scouting for players who are on the up, who have a sell-on potential, who are hungry to impress and achieve, who are not all rejects from Prem Clubs. That young lad from Scotland is an example. Scout them properly.
Get a proper progressive youth system in place (Paul Hart?). Balanta and Langley isn't much of a feeder over 10 years is it? Go to West Ham and learn from the masters of that, if need be.

Use the loan system to our advantage, rather than Hull's or Stoke's, by sending our young talent out to clubs, so they can experience League Football and improve.

I don't want us to waste money anymore, that interview with Sullivan should be taken very seriously.
But we are in a very lucky position where we could invest in the future, without having to sell everything that isn't nailed down.

I don't want "Flav Out", but I just desperately want him to wake up, and change his strategy of how to run a football club... MY football club.


And, to go right back to the start of this post..... STOP WASTING MONEY.

That is just to SENSIBLE.

[RamseyR]

Very well put and a view I suspect is shared by many.

[Goddard]

....The underlying problem is we are 10th and being asked to pay more, that leads to inevitable frustrations, where scapegoats are needed to validate an argument.

Not making scapegoats of anyone. Or even argue against anyone!
Just trying to make a few points about why things are negative, and more importantly... what could improve things.

It goes a bit deeper than Ben Watson, or being 10th in the league, but if you're ok with stuff in general, and the way we're going about things - fine.

It was just a few opinions and observations. Quite constuctive I thought... for me!

[davman]

Spot on, Goddard and echos the points I have made in the past.

What irks me so much is that it is so obvious and yet this 'Successful sports businessman' (Flavio) doesn't see it. Arrrrgh!

[qblockpete]

Goddard, I don't disagree with alot of what you say.

[Goddard]

Goddard, I don't disagree with alot of what you say.

Good.
Try a different approach Pete.... instead of picking holes in peoples posts, which bits do you agree with?


I'd be genuinely interested to know.

[qblockpete]

Agree with the stuff in BOLD


A bit of an eye-opener. Scary stuff, and probably not far from the truth... Which brings me on to our current owners.
Compared to most clubs in our division, and probably above, we are in a lucky position. We have backers with decent money behind them, and as long as they are around... we are safe in comparison to many clubs.

As someone who has been very critical of the policies of FB, that might sound like a contradiction... but I think people do get the wrong end of the stick when they see critics of FB, and assume that I and others just expect the owners to go out and splash millions on big-name players, and "do a Chelsea".
Wrong.

What I am most frustrated about is the idea that raising ST prices to the highest in the league, and not communicating with the fans in any way is the right way to approach things. It has contributed to the falling gates and atmosphere at Loftus Road. And actually cost the club money.

Hiring journeymen or novice managers, and then losing them within a matter of weeks has cost the club money.

The scattergun "randomly plug the gaps" approach to recruiting players, and ending up with the longest squad list I can see in this league (look at the back of any match programme this season for evidence) has wasted hundreds of thousands - maybe millions(?) of pounds. Some of the lengthy contracts handed out to players like Agyemang, Pellicori and Alberti has cost the club big money, and just defy belief.

The amount of agents fees handed out for the loan of players like Steven Reid, Parejo, Tommy Williams, Damiano Tomassi, Rhys Taylor, and loads more has cost the club money.

I'd love to see Kitson come to Rangers, and Cousin could be a good addition too... but that would mean that we would have 4 forwards at QPR, all on loan! (including Taarabt).

So rather than people saying "be grateful we're not Luton"... how about wondering how the hell we're going to stop wasting precious cash, and ending up like them? I don't want our owners to waste cash, and splash millions on even more players, and hire managers on a regular basis, only to sack/lose them - and start the whole thing off again.

I want something that will not only get the club pointing in the right direction and unified with the fans, but also would SAVE money, and get the crowds up.

That is.... invest in a proven manager in the summer (I'd love that to be Curbishley, you insert your own name). Trust him, support him.
Pay him what he's PROVEN he's worth, set him a strict budget, nothing massive, just competitive. In the current climate, that's not mega-millions. Set him targets, sit back and let him do his job freely. If he fails in a set timescale, then cheerio. Fair enough.
Stop this "Sporting Director" nonsense - it doesn't work.

Don't put the prices up anymore, that would be suicide. Get the kids in every week, cheap.
Communicate with the supporters, honestly and openly. You'd be amazed how that would help.

Trim this squad right down to 25 players (it's 32+ at the moment), get scouting for players who are on the up, who have a sell-on potential, who are hungry to impress and achieve, who are not all rejects from Prem Clubs. That young lad from Scotland is an example. Scout them properly.
Get a proper progressive youth system in place (Paul Hart?). Balanta and Langley isn't much of a feeder over 10 years is it? Go to West Ham and learn from the masters of that, if need be.

Use the loan system to our advantage, rather than Hull's or Stoke's, by sending our young talent out to clubs, so they can experience League Football and improve.

I don't want us to waste money anymore, that interview with Sullivan should be taken very seriously.
But we are in a very lucky position where we could invest in the future, without having to sell everything that isn't nailed down.

I don't want "Flav Out", but I just desperately want him to wake up, and change his strategy of how to run a football club... MY football club.

And, to go right back to the start of this post..... STOP WASTING MONEY.

[Goddard]

Ok.

I still find some of the bits you haven't highlighted a bit odd, especially the youth set up and scouting issues... but fair enough.
Shouldn't be greedy.

Agreed with more than I expected, as it goes!

[sirpiechucker]

Excellent post Goddard. Glad you joined this board as I enjoy reading your posts - always well constructed and articulate.

Like you, I have no issue with people personally at the club just feel that the role of Director of Football is unneccessary and isn't working for us. I never argue that Briatore and Co aren't spending because they clearly have be it the loan repayments, the facilities at the ground or the playing staff but it is as you have pointed out:

"it's not what we've spent but how we've spent it"

We never needed Alberti because we already had Ainsworth, Buzsaky, Ledesma and Ephraim who all could play on the wing. We didn't need Ramage or Gorkss because we had already signed Connolly and Hall. Not that I am saying I don't want Gorkss at the club but when you've signed two centre backs in the previous window why do you need to sign two more? Do we need Ikeme when we can bring in an emergency keeper any time of the year? Was Tomassi needed when we already had Rowlands, Mahon, Leigertwood and Buzsaky at the club? I could continue...

As you rightly say we need a manager to come in with a blank sheet of paper and to start at the beginning. Identify that we don't have two for every position and address this immediately. But give them goals and if they fail then fire them but not just after 15 or 23 games into the job. Let them have time to make mistakes, bring their own players into the club and make a go of it.

[Goddard]

Excellent post Goddard. Glad you joined this board as I enjoy reading your posts - always well constructed and articulate.

Like you, I have no issue with people personally at the club just feel that the role of Director of Football is unneccessary and isn't working for us. I never argue that Briatore and Co aren't spending because they clearly have be it the loan repayments, the facilities at the ground or the playing staff but it is as you have pointed out:

"it's not what we've spent but how we've spent it"

We never needed Alberti because we already had Ainsworth, Buzsaky, Ledesma and Ephraim who all could play on the wing. We didn't need Ramage or Gorkss because we had already signed Connolly and Hall. Not that I am saying I don't want Gorkss at the club but when you've signed two centre backs in the previous window why do you need to sign two more? Do we need Ikeme when we can bring in an emergency keeper any time of the year? Was Tomassi needed when we already had Rowlands, Mahon, Leigertwood and Buzsaky at the club? I could continue...

As you rightly say we need a manager to come in with a blank sheet of paper and to start at the beginning. Identify that we don't have two for every position and address this immediately. But give them goals and if they fail then fire them but not just after 15 or 23 games into the job. Let them have time to make mistakes, bring their own players into the club and make a go of it.

It's ALL about the manager, at any football club.

Get that right, and get the relationship between the manager and the chairman right... and everything else follows.

Always has, and always will, and it needn't cost the earth.

[sirpiechucker]

It's ALL about the manager, at any football club.

Get that right, and get the relationship between the manager and the chairman right... and everything else follows.

Always has, and always will, and it needn't cost the earth.

Couldn't agree more.

What also doesn't help is players earn more than their boss. Nobody earns more than Ferguson at United or Wenger at Arsenal. Would you ever earn more than your boss? Nope so why do our players earn more than theirs?

Get the wage structure right, get good quality players on long contracts by all means but don't put bad players on long contracts which are impossible to break.

[writtler]

I agree with much of what you say SirPie but fear because our DOF has spunked so much money up the wall there isn't enough cash to be made available to pay off the deadwood and recruit the necessary 2 per position that is needed.

Goddard - very hard to not agree with anything you say - you have to remember though we are safer than a lot of clubs are with the current owners for as long as they decide to continue lending money to the club and servicing it - Should they decide that the "project" is no longer viable then we will be right up there with those in danger especially given the level of debt now compared to when they arrived.

[terry ball]

I agree with much of what you say SirPie but fear because our DOF has spunked so much money up the wall there isn't enough cash to be made available to pay off the deadwood and recruit the necessary 2 per position that is needed.

Goddard - very hard to not agree with anything you say - you have to remember though we are safer than a lot of clubs are with the current owners for as long as they decide to continue lending money to the club and servicing it - Should they decide that the "project" is no longer viable then we will be right up there with those in danger especially given the level of debt now compared to when they arrived.

This point should be stickied to the home page. People need to understand that although we have "rich investors", they are not giving us money. It all has to be paid back at some point. What they spend on players, loans, managers etc has to be paid back to the lenders