Very Basic Sums - Part 2

[qblockoompah]

that is pretty damning proof of a shambolic and out-right embarassingly run scouting/transfer setup. That is SHOCKING

[Goddard]

that is pretty damning proof of a shambolic and out-right embarassingly run scouting/transfer setup. That is SHOCKING

Well, maybe this is a start?

Martin Allen...

Things need to change, no doubt about it.

[Youvebeenrangered]

The point actually isn't how much we've spent but how we've spent it.

I would rather we had spent the same money on 15 better quality players than we have done on the 39 that have actually joined the club.

I understood i just thought it would be intersting.

[Youvebeenrangered]

I agree with the 15 quality players comment also!!!

Its like this transfer window, rather than getting in 5 or maybe 6 average players id much rather have 2 qualityplayers in key areas.

Hope at the same time other key players hit form and the team should be up there!

[qblockoompah]

Fingers Crossed Goddard

[W12_Ranger]

Below are all the players we have signed since the takeover. Although the official takeover was after the season started we know that both Ephraim and Leigertwood were signed using the owners money to fund the transfer.

Adel Taarabt Tottenham
Akos Buzsaky Plymouth
Alejandro Faurlin Institute
Alessandro Pellicori Avellino
Ben Watson Wigan
Bob Malcolm Derby
Chris Arthur Kettering
Damiano Tommasi Levante
Damien Delaney Hull
Daniel Parejo Real Madrid
Emmanuel Ledesma Genoa
Fitz Hall Wigan
Gary Borrowdale Coventry
Gavin Mahon Watford
Heidar Helguson Bolton
Hogan Ephraim West Ham
Jason Jarrett Preston
Jay Simpson Arsenal
Jordi Lopez Mallorca
Kaspars Gorkss Blackpool
Kieran Lee Man Utd
Lee Cook Fulham
Liam Miller Sunderland
Martin Cranie Portsmouth
Matt Pickens Chicago
Matthew Connolly Arsenal
Mikele Leigertwood Sheff Utd
Michael Mancienne Chelsea
Patrick Agyemang Preston
Peter Ramage Newcastle
Radek Cerny Tottenham
Rhys Taylor Chelsea
Rowan Vine Birmingham
Samuel De Carmine Fiorentina
Scott Sinclair Chelsea
Steven Reid Blackburn
Tom Heaton Man Utd
Tom Williams Peterborough
Wayne Routledge Aston Villa

That is 39 players in 2½ years, which includes loanees, freebies and paid for transactions. Each player who joined the club will in some way will have cost the club money whether it be in salaries, agent fees, transfer fees or signing on fees. The club have chosen to spend money on each of these signings regardless of where the money has come from to pay them. Whether the club has generated x million from the fans or x million from advertising and sponsorship one thing for sure is that all 39 players have joined (and some have now departed) since the takeover. Thus meaning that however much people argue, the board have proven that they are been prepared to spend money.

Your guess is as good as mine on exactly how much money has been spent on these players?!? I don't believe that Jason Jarrett would have cost the club a great deal but its all money that could have been spent elsewhere. Same could be said Kieran Lee, same could be said about Chris Arthur as could it be said about Damiano Tommassi. None of them played a great deal (if any) for the first team but collectively how much did they cost the club? Add Pellicori and Alberti to this as well as players like Parejo, Ledesma, Malcolm, Pickens and Sinclair and the money spent just keeps going up and up. Money which ultimately could have been spent elsewhere.

This isn't an attack on Paladini, Briatore or any one person in particular but it is their collective responsibility. They have chosen to spend money on the playing staff and whether you agree with me or not too many of the 39 listed have failed. All clubs will sign duds, all clubs will sign players who were never expected to flop but do (Shevchenko for Chelsea, Kluviert for Newcastle and Morienties for Liverpool to name but three). We are no different but how many of the 39 listed could be regarded as successes?

Not sure whether Balanta could/should be included in the list above because he came through the youth system but with Stewart and Rowlands already at the club and Camp and Blackstock here prior to the takeover we already had the core of the side in place. The likes of Hall and Connolly were improvements on Rehman, Curtis and Cullip and so therefore can be deemed neccessary signings regardless of whether they have performed for us or not. But why then go on and sign Gorkss and Ramage when you have already bought 2 centre backs? Why sign Alberti when we already had Buzsaky, Vine, Ephraim and Ainsworth who can all play on the wing?

Bringing players to club who are an improvement on who is already there is one thing but to sign quantity for the sake of it is a waste of money. If the current rumours are true and we are to sign two more central midfielders then what was the point of signing Faurlin just a few months ago?

I will never be one who says that the board hasn't spent money but the proof is listed above that the money has not been very well spent. The argument that Routledge, Connolly, Gorkss, Simpson and Taraabt are very good players is a valid one but why sign Lopez, Arthur, Sinclair, Malcolm, Pickens, Alberti, Pellicori, Jarrett, Miller, Lee, Ledesma, Parejo etc etc?

We already had Camp, Stewart, Rowlands, Blackstock meaning that improvements were needed on about a dozen players instead we've signed 39 players (or two squads worth) with the majority having been flops and duds.

To end I'll do some simple maths:

Agyemang + Pellicori + Alberti = Ebanks-Blake
Miller + Jarrett + Lopez + Watson + Reid = Kitson

Very good overview SPC much appreciated.

I guess to summise rather than go for quality we have opted for quantity.

We probably could have spent the same amount of money when you add up on all the fees and wages for those 39 players on a small squad of players capable of challenging for promotion.

I think its shocking that from the 39 players signed we have failed to sign 2 quality full backs and good No.9 striker.

[sirpiechucker]

I don't disagree with the original post, as it is very well written.

Davman question for you

Gianni goes to Flavio and says "we can have Beckford for 2 million, his contract runs out in July and he wants say 12k a week, I would like him.

Would Flavio say YES to the deal???????????

Nodge 70, agents fees apart from one segment over 6 months, we were near the bottom of the league table, so didn't really see that as an issue. Many of the players highlighted are loans and by memory players like Jarrett, were before Flavio

We know that Leigertwood and Ephraim were signed in the summer of 2007 using funds from Briatore and Co. which means that they had financial power of the club in October 2007 when Jarrett signed for us. He played in the 4-2 loss against Colchester and the 1-0 win over Norwich. Gregory had been sacked by the board prior to these games which Harford was in control of.

[davman]

I don't disagree with the original post, as it is very well written.

Davman question for you

Gianni goes to Flavio and says "we can have Beckford for 2 million, his contract runs out in July and he wants say 12k a week, I would like him.

Would Flavio say YES to the deal???????????

Nodge 70, agents fees apart from one segment over 6 months, we were near the bottom of the league table, so didn't really see that as an issue. Many of the players highlighted are loans and by memory players like Jarrett, were before Flavio

Pete, I'll answer the question first then will try to explain where I'm at just for you.

Firstly, it shouldn't be Gianni going to Flabio - I want a FOOTBALL man to come in and be given total control over who comes in and who goes out.

Secondly, a BUDGET should be given to that manager. If he decides to spend it all on Beckford, then go on, son fill your boots - your choice. I have given you a target to achieve this season and if you meet my budget and achieve that target, then kudos and a nice pay rise / bonus to you.

Unlike many I am not an advocate of buying player after player. As you keep saying yourself, we're not actually that far away from being a fantastic squad. What is missing, however, is:

1. Balance - nearly 60% of those 39 signings are MIDFIELDERS when we have needed at least TWO strikers and TWO full backs since Dowie took over. We also need a leader out there - a big lump, who communicates and won't tolerate a lack of tracking back, attempts to beat a man on the edge of our own penalty area or shirking of 50/50 challenges.

2. Continuity - How tough can it be to understand - get a football man in, give him a budget, set him targets and then let him be. DO NOT INTERFERE either by forcing players on him, by 'strongly' suggesting 4-4-2 when we all know 4-5-1 is the formation the unbalanced squad he was given points him at; in short, let him be to do his job and then judge him on results.

3. Communication - now that Amit has gone quiet, so have the board (no surprise there). There has been no attempt to hold hands up and say 'we've made mistakes, but stick with us' or just why Hart was appointed in a hurry - is he a stopgap, or is it really a chance for him to make a claim for the job.

4. Allow that football man to do what Briatore has promised from the off - get promotion the 'right way'. That does not mean siging player after player; it means building the club up from the bottom. Stage 1 should have been to get the Academy status back and Stage 2 should have been to appoint the best in youth development. The thought that doing it properly means tarting up the corporate side for wanna be models turns my stomach and is so far away from 'doing it properly' that it makes me sick.

Anyway, as I said right at the top, I don't necessarily want to sign Beckford, although as sirpiechucker has pointed out so well today, three or four of Paladini and Briatore's signings could have paid for him or Dave Kitson (who I would prefer, incidentally).

The one constant here is Gianni. You say Hart has control of the transfers and then phrase the question as though Paladini is doing the buying. I know which is most likely...

[bushcelt1]

Agree with a lot of that.....can you just imagine what we would have done with real football people with that kind of dough...boutique footy..ffs!!

[W12_Ranger]

Pete, I'll answer the question first then will try to explain where I'm at just for you.

Firstly, it shouldn't be Gianni going to Flabio - I want a FOOTBALL man to come in and be given total control over who comes in and who goes out.

Secondly, a BUDGET should be given to that manager. If he decides to spend it all on Beckford, then go on, son fill your boots - your choice. I have given you a target to achieve this season and if you meet my budget and achieve that target, then kudos and a nice pay rise / bonus to you.

Unlike many I am not an advocate of buying player after player. As you keep saying yourself, we're not actually that far away from being a fantastic squad. What is missing, however, is:

1. Balance - nearly 60% of those 39 signings are MIDFIELDERS when we have needed at least TWO strikers and TWO full backs since Dowie took over. We also need a leader out there - a big lump, who communicates and won't tolerate a lack of tracking back, attempts to beat a man on the edge of our own penalty area or shirking of 50/50 challenges.

2. Continuity - How tough can it be to understand - get a football man in, give him a budget, set him targets and then let him be. DO NOT INTERFERE either by forcing players on him, by 'strongly' suggesting 4-4-2 when we all know 4-5-1 is the formation the unbalanced squad he was given points him at; in short, let him be to do his job and then judge him on results.

3. Communication - now that Amit has gone quiet, so have the board (no surprise there). There has been no attempt to hold hands up and say 'we've made mistakes, but stick with us' or just why Hart was appointed in a hurry - is he a stopgap, or is it really a chance for him to make a claim for the job.

4. Allow that football man to do what Briatore has promised from the off - get promotion the 'right way'. That does not mean siging player after player; it means building the club up from the bottom. Stage 1 should have been to get the Academy status back and Stage 2 should have been to appoint the best in youth development. The thought that doing it properly means tarting up the corporate side for wanna be models turns my stomach and is so far away from 'doing it properly' that it makes me sick.

Anyway, as I said right at the top, I don't necessarily want to sign Beckford, although as sirpiechucker has pointed out so well today, three or four of Paladini and Briatore's signings could have paid for him or Dave Kitson (who I would prefer, incidentally).

The one constant here is Gianni. You say Hart has control of the transfers and then phrase the question as though Paladini is doing the buying. I know which is most likely...

Outstanding response

[davman]

Outstanding response

ayfanku!

Now, let's have a sweep on when Pete gets round to responding - my money's on never!

[Goddard]

Pete, I'll answer the question first then will try to explain where I'm at just for you.

Firstly, it shouldn't be Gianni going to Flabio - I want a FOOTBALL man to come in and be given total control over who comes in and who goes out.

Secondly, a BUDGET should be given to that manager. If he decides to spend it all on Beckford, then go on, son fill your boots - your choice. I have given you a target to achieve this season and if you meet my budget and achieve that target, then kudos and a nice pay rise / bonus to you.

Unlike many I am not an advocate of buying player after player. As you keep saying yourself, we're not actually that far away from being a fantastic squad. What is missing, however, is:

1. Balance - nearly 60% of those 39 signings are MIDFIELDERS when we have needed at least TWO strikers and TWO full backs since Dowie took over. We also need a leader out there - a big lump, who communicates and won't tolerate a lack of tracking back, attempts to beat a man on the edge of our own penalty area or shirking of 50/50 challenges.

2. Continuity - How tough can it be to understand - get a football man in, give him a budget, set him targets and then let him be. DO NOT INTERFERE either by forcing players on him, by 'strongly' suggesting 4-4-2 when we all know 4-5-1 is the formation the unbalanced squad he was given points him at; in short, let him be to do his job and then judge him on results.

3. Communication - now that Amit has gone quiet, so have the board (no surprise there). There has been no attempt to hold hands up and say 'we've made mistakes, but stick with us' or just why Hart was appointed in a hurry - is he a stopgap, or is it really a chance for him to make a claim for the job.

4. Allow that football man to do what Briatore has promised from the off - get promotion the 'right way'. That does not mean siging player after player; it means building the club up from the bottom. Stage 1 should have been to get the Academy status back and Stage 2 should have been to appoint the best in youth development. The thought that doing it properly means tarting up the corporate side for wanna be models turns my stomach and is so far away from 'doing it properly' that it makes me sick.

Anyway, as I said right at the top, I don't necessarily want to sign Beckford, although as sirpiechucker has pointed out so well today, three or four of Paladini and Briatore's signings could have paid for him or Dave Kitson (who I would prefer, incidentally).

The one constant here is Gianni. You say Hart has control of the transfers and then phrase the question as though Paladini is doing the buying. I know which is most likely...

Perfectly put.

I fail to see how anyone could not agree with that.

[sirpiechucker]

Pete, I'll answer the question first then will try to explain where I'm at just for you.

Firstly, it shouldn't be Gianni going to Flabio - I want a FOOTBALL man to come in and be given total control over who comes in and who goes out.

Secondly, a BUDGET should be given to that manager. If he decides to spend it all on Beckford, then go on, son fill your boots - your choice. I have given you a target to achieve this season and if you meet my budget and achieve that target, then kudos and a nice pay rise / bonus to you.

Unlike many I am not an advocate of buying player after player. As you keep saying yourself, we're not actually that far away from being a fantastic squad. What is missing, however, is:

1. Balance - nearly 60% of those 39 signings are MIDFIELDERS when we have needed at least TWO strikers and TWO full backs since Dowie took over. We also need a leader out there - a big lump, who communicates and won't tolerate a lack of tracking back, attempts to beat a man on the edge of our own penalty area or shirking of 50/50 challenges.

2. Continuity - How tough can it be to understand - get a football man in, give him a budget, set him targets and then let him be. DO NOT INTERFERE either by forcing players on him, by 'strongly' suggesting 4-4-2 when we all know 4-5-1 is the formation the unbalanced squad he was given points him at; in short, let him be to do his job and then judge him on results.

3. Communication - now that Amit has gone quiet, so have the board (no surprise there). There has been no attempt to hold hands up and say 'we've made mistakes, but stick with us' or just why Hart was appointed in a hurry - is he a stopgap, or is it really a chance for him to make a claim for the job.

4. Allow that football man to do what Briatore has promised from the off - get promotion the 'right way'. That does not mean siging player after player; it means building the club up from the bottom. Stage 1 should have been to get the Academy status back and Stage 2 should have been to appoint the best in youth development. The thought that doing it properly means tarting up the corporate side for wanna be models turns my stomach and is so far away from 'doing it properly' that it makes me sick.

Anyway, as I said right at the top, I don't necessarily want to sign Beckford, although as sirpiechucker has pointed out so well today, three or four of Paladini and Briatore's signings could have paid for him or Dave Kitson (who I would prefer, incidentally).

The one constant here is Gianni. You say Hart has control of the transfers and then phrase the question as though Paladini is doing the buying. I know which is most likely...

Post of the decade!

Love reading like minded well constructed posts. People like you make me feel positive about my club.

[pc1401]

Post of the decade!

And it is only 5 days old

[davman]

ayfanku!

Now, let's have a sweep on when Pete gets round to responding - my money's on never!

Money looking good...