Arrivederci - sig. Pelican di arrivederci

[jjranger]

I say it is as someone is accusing me of making false accusations

Dont start like you did the other night i wont entertain it

entertain what or are you going to send me threatening pms as well oh how I shake at the thought.

[Receed R]

Yes and no really. I understand the points you have made and again would not dissagree. My problem lies with a darker side that seems to be ignored each time it surfaces. Take the post from Hanwell or Jimmy the other day just as an example and not first. Some pretty serious points get raised about past behaviour and they are simply ignored. In fact what really annoys me about a lot of posters on both side of the fence is that they raise points but never follow through ,to coin a phrase. "if only you knew?" or "If I told you what really happened", "One day the truth will come out". Well I am not ITK and I dont know so would somebody start talking factually.

All I do know is the club is not as it was. I first went in 1980 and had a season ticket for over 20 years so feel reasonably qualified to have an opinion at least. We have had a squad much worse than today (not sure if ever as unbalanced) but for some reason the club feels like a rotten apple. You cannot blame paying customers for this. It is not their job. They pay their "£20" and watch the game. What happens on the pitch is the responsibilty of QPR FC, end of.

thanks for the reply and i admit i agree to a certain extent however i dont feel gianni is to blame

FB is a shifty character, looked what happened with F1

When i first started supporting rangers in the 90s i remember the demo's outside HQ against richard thomson

I dont feel this is the way forward

If im honest with you i hope the mittals take over as there will be much more Transparency with the fan base and board

We have to look to the future not dwell on the past, mistakes have been made i admit that

Thanks for the reply by the way

[Receed R]

entertain what or are you going to send me threatening pms as well oh how I shake at the thought.

do get your facts straight sunshine

[Mr Lofty]

To be fair, points are never ignored.

Devo came onto the site and made his points and so did Hanwell Ranger. i thought Isleworth said he had a family member ill or would PM them, so its not really being brushed under the carpet.

Think half the problem is those subject are discussed and not left under the carpet, thats what leads to annoymosity sometimes.

Lets just say as an outsider it seems that clear answers are at a premium. I take your point about Isleworth and funnily enough I think that was the first time I have seen and admission of error etc. Maybe a bit more like that would end the annoymosity.

Good talking as always but must go to bed now. I am sure it will all start again tomorrow!

[Mr Lofty]

thanks for the reply and i admit i agree to a certain extent however i dont feel gianni is to blame

FB is a shifty character, looked what happened with F1

When i first started supporting rangers in the 90s i remember the demo's outside HQ against richard thomson

I dont feel this is the way forward

If im honest with you i hope the mittals take over as there will be much more Transparency with the fan base and board

We have to look to the future not dwell on the past, mistakes have been made i admit that

Thanks for the reply by the way

The Mittals - and so say all of us. Good night.

[Receed R]

The Mittals - and so say all of us. Good night.

cheers lofty:boss:

[Bernie's Barnet]

Lofty thanks for the response

firstly its never about arguements not interested mate

i salute the fact that you agree with me that GP saved the club

You have to remember GP acts as a go between the playing side to the board

FB sets the budget, no one else, also worth noting FB is new to the football world and needs an adivisor to the football side

He made a success of his F1 team and he WILL make a success of QPR. Make no bones about it his passionate about us

Granted GP has made mistakes but his integeral to the setup

If only you knew what he does behind the scenes you would be very surprised

So in conclusion we are going in the right places, have faith and you never know what may be round the corner

No spin just how i see it

Hope that clears this up

Some interesting points you make, some of which I would suspect to be correct, without being ITK in any way.

However, there are a couple of points which I really cannot agree with. FB cannot realistically hold his hands up and say he is still "new to football". He's been our owner for more than 2 years now, and I'd suggest that anyone who doesn't know the business in which they've spent money after 2 years either isn't really committing to it, or has no interest in taking a day to day interest in running it on an ongoing basis. QPR is a different situation to Renault, where it isn't HIS money that's being spent on financing the operation.

Also, FB certainly is not "passionate about us". He may be passionate about the financial viability and success of "the project", but he's never IMO done one thing to suggest he has any interest in the club's supporters. Empty seats, more with every season that goes by, players that can't be bothered to acknowledge fans, lifelong supporters alienated and choosing to stay away, all symptoms of this.

It's difficult to see the point of making a success of a project that no one will be left to care about.

[Receed R]

Some interesting points you make, some of which I would suspect to be correct, without being ITK in any way.

However, there are a couple of points which I really cannot agree with. FB cannot realistically hold his hands up and say he is still "new to football". He's been our owner for more than 2 years now, and I'd suggest that anyone who doesn't know the business in which they've spent money after 2 years either isn't really committing to it, or has no interest in taking a day to day interest in running it on an ongoing basis. QPR is a different situation to Renault, where it isn't HIS money that's being spent on financing the operation.

Also, FB certainly is not "passionate about us". He may be passionate about the financial viability and success of "the project", but he's never IMO done one thing to suggest he has any interest in the club's supporters. Empty seats, more with every season that goes by, players that can't be bothered to acknowledge fans, lifelong supporters alienated and choosing to stay away, all symptoms of this.

It's difficult to see the point of making a success of a project that no one will be left to care about.

good points raised there in response bernie and i will answer the best i can

firstly he may have been here 2 years but football is a different kettle of fish to F1

He has rely on those at the club to give him advice, you have to agree that we have brought in some quality players, buzz, taarbat, simpson, routledge etc

It takes time to find the winning formula, with time we will be there.

FB has brought excellent sponsorship to the club, lotto deal was 20 million i believe, no one can argue with that

they are new on all this football lark so give them time and they will make a success of it, u have to believe that

I agree with your last point, fans have now been distanced from the club through ticket prices etc but i dont think we are the only ones putting up the prices, wasnt ipswitch away £37?

Times are hard for the average supporter due to the credit crunch but that isnt QPR'S fault

Get behind the team and success will come:boss:

[qpr_matt]

good points raised there in response bernie and i will answer the best i can

firstly he may have been here 2 years but football is a different kettle of fish to F1

He has rely on those at the club to give him advice, you have to agree that we have brought in some quality players, buzz, taarbat, simpson, routledge etc

It takes time to find the winning formula, with time we will be there.

FB has brought excellent sponsorship to the club, lotto deal was 20 million i believe, no one can argue with that

they are new on all this football lark so give them time and they will make a success of it, u have to believe that

I agree with your last point, fans have now been distanced from the club through ticket prices etc but i dont think we are the only ones putting up the prices, wasnt ipswitch away £37?

Times are hard for the average supporter due to the credit crunch but that isnt QPR'S fault

Get behind the team and success will come:boss:

Contradicting yourself here. We got/getting 20mil for sponsers from Lotto, then we have Golf Air, Santander and such - and then try to justfy the high prices by going by Ipswich - who have a lot of players and a decent wedge, spent money and do not have the sponsers we do. SO I can see why they charge it, but we have a lot more coming elsewhere, yet still get charged a lot.

Also, the winning formula probably would have come if we didnt keep changing our manager - they not learnt that yet no? Does not take 2, going on 3 years to know this - they wouldnt change drivers half way through a season, every season.

[enzian]

Lofty thanks for the response

firstly its never about arguements not interested mate

i salute the fact that you agree with me that GP saved the club

You have to remember GP acts as a go between the playing side to the board

FB sets the budget, no one else, also worth noting FB is new to the football world and needs an adivisor to the football side

He made a success of his F1 team and he WILL make a success of QPR. Make no bones about it his passionate about us

Granted GP has made mistakes but his integeral to the setup

If only you knew what he does behind the scenes you would be very surprised

So in conclusion we are going in the right places, have faith and you never know what may be round the corner

No spin just how i see it

Hope that clears this up

i see this so often,but when asked what is it he does then?,it's hello darkness my old friend.if you can't/will not back it up,don't spout it.

[paulmason]

i see this so often,but when asked what is it he does then?,it's hello darkness my old friend.if you can't/will not back it up,don't spout it.

Ditto, all I want to know is what he does on a day to day basis to justify his healthy salary and perks including interest free loans with no repayment terms attached.

[Yousef]

There is no problem in making mistakes but repeating the same mistake makes a person simply an idiot as there he did not learn.

[Rich]

Part of the deal probably means we won't have to pay the final 2 years of his contract. So it's good news.

[Olly]

he is a member of the mafia, so be careful what you say

[Mutley]

i see this so often,but when asked what is it he does then?,it's hello darkness my old friend.if you can't/will not back it up,don't spout it.

Exactly what i was thinking when i read it.