Seems Like The "Players" Will Win

[qblockpete]

Okay, here is my take on the last 24 hours. We can look at different scenarios, but my yardstick for all this would John Gorman. He has denied any wrongdoing and says he will stick by Jim Magilton, who himself has denied the allegation of headbutting

I think we agree Magilton made scapegoats and started at the top in terms of ability of the players and his team selection for Monday was baffling to say the least, but it was a clear indication from his point of view, certain players were not pulling their weight. was he right or wrong?

The relationship between Magilton and Buzsacky has been tense for a few months now and he clearly thought, he should be getting better from one of his star players. In the last few games, Buzz had not been at his best and in a way deserved to be dropped for the game against Watford. You don't always have to like your boss, but you are paid well to adhere to his decisionmaking. Over time and not 2 games, it can been seen if thats right or wrong. We were abysmal on Saturday and it must have been frustrating to see our players underperform.

One thing I cannot understand, was Magilton asking for "character" on Monday then dropping the likes of tarrabt, Buzz indicated those were the ones who did not have it. The excuse of pudding pitch or 2 games in 48 hours was a smokescreen.

So, it did prove that magilton was not a strong enough character to deal with the bigger players within the club and he vented his anger after the game. Magiton and Gorman come across as honest men, who felt they were being cheated by the efforts of certain players. In hindsight, what magilton should have done, is go to the baord after the game and make it clear that certain players needed to be sold (if thats what he felt) and see their reaction. Unfortunately passionate people normally do things on impulse and that has been his down fall. If we had been top and lost a couple, he could afford the luxury of losing his rag and it would have undoubtedly been swept under the carpet, he done this act in moment of weakness on his part and not a position of strength and that will be his downfall.

I am gutted on days like today, because yet again we have national coverage for the wrong reasons and consistently are the laughing stock of football and it really tests your support for them. I fear it was the name involved and if he had been say Alberti, this happened to, the club would have dealt with it differently. By suspending someone, it shows where your allegiance lies and that is clearly with the player. hopefully this does not set a dangerous president, as the players don't really have the right being mid-table to be calling the shots

[sirpiechucker]

I think you are right about if it had been Alberti then it wouldn't have been such an issue. Magilton wanted players to show character but those players will struggle to do that sitting on the bench. If I were Magilton I would have continued to play the likes of Taraabt, Simpson, Watson etc for a few more games and if the lack of character still showed then I would have dropped them and made it clear to the players that they will not get another chance at this club. As you and others have said no player should be bigger than the club. If we have some who think they are then they will only truly learn when they are dropped and dropped for good. There is no point telling a kid they can no longer have their toy and five minutes later give it back to them. If Magilton believed Buzsaky or any other player wasn't pulling their weigt then give them an ultimatium and let them play for the reserves.

I have serious doubts of what actually went on. All I know is like you I am fed up of being in the news for the wrong reasons.

[James1979]

I agree with what your saying about player power but there comes a limit. Buz was only on pitch mid to late 2nd half, so seems odd that he should feel jim's wrath. I think you have to look at it from a work (professional) point of view. The headbut I reckon is unlikely but gorman is always going to stick with Jim. They were brought in together and clearly are good mates and come as a package.

If the headbut didn't happen then why the problem? I think he may have lost the dressing room not just buz with his "fan-like" reaction to defeats. I don't think this works when you're a manager unless you're of the character and rep of alex ferguson.

Player power is not good. But neither is screaming abuse and not accepting some of the blame. Also if blame is dished out inconsistently then questions have to be asked.

[Bernie's Barnet]

Okay, here is my take on the last 24 hours. We can look at different scenarios, but my yardstick for all this would John Gorman. He has denied any wrongdoing and says he will stick by Jim Magilton, who himself has denied the allegation of headbutting

I think we agree Magilton made scapegoats and started at the top in terms of ability of the players and his team selection for Monday was baffling to say the least, but it was a clear indication from his point of view, certain players were not pulling their weight. was he right or wrong?

The relationship between Magilton and Buzsacky has been tense for a few months now and he clearly thought, he should be getting better from one of his star players. In the last few games, Buzz had not been at his best and in a way deserved to be dropped for the game against Watford. You don't always have to like your boss, but you are paid well to adhere to his decisionmaking. Over time and not 2 games, it can been seen if thats right or wrong. We were abysmal on Saturday and it must have been frustrating to see our players underperform.

One thing I cannot understand, was Magilton asking for "character" on Monday then dropping the likes of tarrabt, Buzz indicated those were the ones who did not have it. The excuse of pudding pitch or 2 games in 48 hours was a smokescreen.

So, it did prove that magilton was not a strong enough character to deal with the bigger players within the club and he vented his anger after the game. Magiton and Gorman come across as honest men, who felt they were being cheated by the efforts of certain players. In hindsight, what magilton should have done, is go to the baord after the game and make it clear that certain players needed to be sold (if thats what he felt) and see their reaction. Unfortunately passionate people normally do things on impulse and that has been his down fall. If we had been top and lost a couple, he could afford the luxury of losing his rag and it would have undoubtedly been swept under the carpet, he done this act in moment of weakness on his part and not a position of strength and that will be his downfall.

I am gutted on days like today, because yet again we have national coverage for the wrong reasons and consistently are the laughing stock of football and it really tests your support for them. I fear it was the name involved and if he had been say Alberti, this happened to, the club would have dealt with it differently. By suspending someone, it shows where your allegiance lies and that is clearly with the player. hopefully this does not set a dangerous president, as the players don't really have the right being mid-table to be calling the shots

Listen.

The primary purpose of a football manager is to manage his players. To get them performing successfully as a team. If you can't do that, you are not up to the job. Full stop.

Magilton is one stop short of a psycho. Unable to control his emotions or anger. Talk first and think later, if he finds time between bullying people. Whatever his philosophy on football may be becomes irrelevant, because he is never more than one explosion away from alienating a player or players. Sooner or later, you've alienated so many so often, they don't listen any more.

People like him don't change, don't learn. Ipswich fans told us repeatedly, he'll have his favourites, he'll never know his best team, he'll constantly tinker and now we've seen it all for ourselves.

Other rumours circulated about these kinds of violent incidents with players, and of him having affairs with players wives. As I said elsewhere, it wouldn't have been too difficult to verify all this before he was employed.

Personally, I'll be very happy to see this bloke out the door, and in the circumstances, the owners should be grateful that they can get rid without paying a penny more.

[sirpiechucker]

Is Briatore a coward? This is two managers in a row where he has had to dismiss a man not because of his failures but for other non footballing reasons.

[qblockpete]

Bernies, you could be right.

Just saw Stoke city who had a similar thing happen, now say its "water under the bridge" between Pullis and Beattie and Beattie himself hadn't been training for two days. I guess Stoke City are perceived to be doing well and thats why the different reaction.

[pkloft]

Okay, here is my take on the last 24 hours. We can look at different scenarios, but my yardstick for all this would John Gorman. He has denied any wrongdoing and says he will stick by Jim Magilton, who himself has denied the allegation of headbutting

I think we agree Magilton made scapegoats and started at the top in terms of ability of the players and his team selection for Monday was baffling to say the least, but it was a clear indication from his point of view, certain players were not pulling their weight. was he right or wrong?

The relationship between Magilton and Buzsacky has been tense for a few months now and he clearly thought, he should be getting better from one of his star players. In the last few games, Buzz had not been at his best and in a way deserved to be dropped for the game against Watford. You don't always have to like your boss, but you are paid well to adhere to his decisionmaking. Over time and not 2 games, it can been seen if thats right or wrong. We were abysmal on Saturday and it must have been frustrating to see our players underperform.

One thing I cannot understand, was Magilton asking for "character" on Monday then dropping the likes of tarrabt, Buzz indicated those were the ones who did not have it. The excuse of pudding pitch or 2 games in 48 hours was a smokescreen.

So, it did prove that magilton was not a strong enough character to deal with the bigger players within the club and he vented his anger after the game. Magiton and Gorman come across as honest men, who felt they were being cheated by the efforts of certain players. In hindsight, what magilton should have done, is go to the baord after the game and make it clear that certain players needed to be sold (if thats what he felt) and see their reaction. Unfortunately passionate people normally do things on impulse and that has been his down fall. If we had been top and lost a couple, he could afford the luxury of losing his rag and it would have undoubtedly been swept under the carpet, he done this act in moment of weakness on his part and not a position of strength and that will be his downfall.

I am gutted on days like today, because yet again we have national coverage for the wrong reasons and consistently are the laughing stock of football and it really tests your support for them. I fear it was the name involved and if he had been say Alberti, this happened to, the club would have dealt with it differently. By suspending someone, it shows where your allegiance lies and that is clearly with the player. hopefully this does not set a dangerous president, as the players don't really have the right being mid-table to be calling the shots

first of all i agree with most of what you say, but, could / should have JM played the same team that got walloped 5-1 at home to a team like M'boro, what kind of message would that have sent out to the fringe players!!

i'm sure if he played the same team & we got beat you'd have everyone moaning at his team selection

i just don't know what going on with my club, but it sickens me to the back teeth that we are portrayed as a laughing stock in the media, i think it's about time we had a complete clear out at the club & start from fresh, get a top quality manager in who has 100% control of players & transfers & take it from there, and to be honest I'm just glad i didn't re-new my ST last season & decided to pick & choose :very_sad:

around & around goes the QPR merry-go-round :very_sad::very_sad::

[ScottJones]

Like Pete says, the ting that i dont quite get is Gorman. I've seen him around the players and it's obvious they have upmost respect for him - he seems a good egg. So for him to walk on principle and put out a statement that he wont return to QPR until Madge is re-appointed to me smacks not of loyalty to Jim but to sticking to principles. Chuck in the other departure (someone not even bought to this club by Magilton) and, well, something aint right.

I genuinely feel that there has been a storm in a tea cup (as gorman put it) between Madge and Buzz..but that buzz had thrown his toys out of the pram and the board have panicked...

[ollyhoops]

I think the real problem is this:

Had we'd beaten Middlesborough and Watford convincingly with good results and a good performance would Magilton be under the spot light? No of course not, it sounds more to me that it's player power and maybe a number of them are just unhappy under his management, the headbutt excuse is just all it is to have reason to suspend him. Very similar to Holloway, just an excuse to get rid where he probably hasn't done anything wrong.

As mentioned, Magiltons days here at QPR are over, so I guess we'll have to put this season on hold and start again next year.

[Bernie's Barnet]

Like Pete says, the ting that i dont quite get is Gorman. I've seen him around the players and it's obvious they have upmost respect for him - he seems a good egg. So for him to walk on principle and put out a statement that he wont return to QPR until Madge is re-appointed to me smacks not of loyalty to Jim but to sticking to principles. Chuck in the other departure (someone not even bought to this club by Magilton) and, well, something aint right.

I genuinely feel that there has been a storm in a tea cup (as gorman put it) between Madge and Buzz..but that buzz had thrown his toys out of the pram and the board have panicked...

Not sure how many more times I need to say this, but if any of the management team were in the changing room when the incident occurred, if they did nothing to stop it, they will be guilty of gross misconduct and be dismissed without compensation. They will also be liable to be included in any legal action as a result.

To put it simply, Gorman has a vested interest in supporting Magilton and lying.

[qblockpete]

Not true.. Gorman gains nothing,

to me its an act from a man with principals

[Bernie's Barnet]

Bernies, you could be right.

Just saw Stoke city who had a similar thing happen, now say its "water under the bridge" between Pullis and Beattie and Beattie himself hadn't been training for two days. I guess Stoke City are perceived to be doing well and thats why the different reaction.

Stoke City fans have in fact been getting onto Pulis's back in recent games over the standard of football played. Believe it or not.

[ChelmsfordRs]

could / should have JM played the same team that got walloped 5-1 at home to a team like M'boro, what kind of message would that have sent out to the fringe players!!

Unless of course the message is - if you one of my favorites it doesn't matter how cr*p you play I will keep you in the team - dropping Gorkss and not Hall on Monday night was one of the worse (selection) management decisions I have seen for years and lets face it theres quite a lot of competition for that.

Does ANYONE other than JM believe Hall is a better defender than Gorkss ?

[baz]

Like Pete says, the ting that i dont quite get is Gorman. I've seen him around the players and it's obvious they have upmost respect for him - he seems a good egg. So for him to walk on principle and put out a statement that he wont return to QPR until Madge is re-appointed to me smacks not of loyalty to Jim but to sticking to principles. Chuck in the other departure (someone not even bought to this club by Magilton) and, well, something aint right.

I genuinely feel that there has been a storm in a tea cup (as gorman put it) between Madge and Buzz..but that buzz had thrown his toys out of the pram and the board have panicked...

Sorry I don't buy the holier than thou stuff, everything coming out suggests what was reported did happen, what was is that JG was supposed to say to Buzzacky, "you might as well come back in because we wont be here in the morning"

JG is in a very difficult position, if he intervened he undermined JM, JM would be finished and JG would never work as an assistant again, If he confirmed the allegation, then JM would be finished JG might get the caretakers role but would never work as an assistant again. He backs his manager he is seen as loyal and will work again.

[shania]

Listen.

The primary purpose of a football manager is to manage his players. To get them performing successfully as a team. If you can't do that, you are not up to the job. Full stop.

Magilton is one stop short of a psycho. Unable to control his emotions or anger. Talk first and think later, if he finds time between bullying people. Whatever his philosophy on football may be becomes irrelevant, because he is never more than one explosion away from alienating a player or players. Sooner or later, you've alienated so many so often, they don't listen any more.

People like him don't change, don't learn. Ipswich fans told us repeatedly, he'll have his favourites, he'll never know his best team, he'll constantly tinker and now we've seen it all for ourselves.

Other rumours circulated about these kinds of violent incidents with players, and of him having affairs with players wives. As I said elsewhere, it wouldn't have been too difficult to verify all this before he was employed.

Personally, I'll be very happy to see this bloke out the door, and in the circumstances, the owners should be grateful that they can get rid without paying a penny more.

I agree with you on this. And why did he constantly play Hall and not Gorkks.