5 years from now under JFH & NW?

[Southport]

Can't believe this is up for debate. Warnock steps in for 4 games, sorts the defence out (it wasn't Jimmy) and leaves the club with momentum (consecutive wins against high flying opposition). Jimmy has done ok, but looking at the job Warnock has done at Rotherham only one is good enough if we want promotion. That is why Warnock got manager of the month, and Jimmy didn't

[maidstone_hoop]

You definitely are misunderstanding the Warnock discussion if you call it bashing. I firmly agree with almost everything you've said here. The issues myself and many others have stated is not that he is a bad manager for this level, in fact, he's probably the best manager this level has ever had. The issue is that at the level above, he has really not shown anything to suggest he'd be successful.

I don't think Warnocks ever really had a fair crack at the Prem but I understand your sentiments on that point.

The main thing is we now have a decent young manager in place who is conducting himself very nicely. He seems to have a real desire and passion for the job but more importantly he seems able to actually effect individual players with his methods. I am actually quite pleased how it all worked out this season and even finishing mid table.

I actually think we will be stronger for it next season and JFH might do something a little special with us.

[Shepherds Mush]

His record for us in the PL wasn't actually that bad considering how hamstrung he'd been throughout the summer window. We were always well clear of the relegation zone and look how many away games we won or drew. Only when Hughes took over did it all go dramatically downhill.

How many away games did we lose and how many home games did we win and draw?

Also, where were we in the league when he left?....well clear of relegation or in the bottom 3?

[Stanley]

How many away games did we lose and how many home games did we win and draw?

Also, where were we in the league when he left?....well clear of relegation or in the bottom 3?

And if TF hadn't allowed himself to have his head turned and stuck by his manager, do you think we would've finished higher up the table, instead of escaping by the skin of our teeth on the final day?.............And also who do you think would have spent less money (on wages and fees) in achieving that out of the two managers?

[bushkangaroo]

Last time I challenged you for endlessly closing down discussion on here and for ceaselessly misrepresenting folk, you banned me for a week. Knock yourself out fella. Soon it'll only be you and a couple of others on here banging on about what world beaters we are...... You're doing a great job moderating.

Endlessly closing down discussion? A bit rich coming from Rangers 77, surely? Pot and kettle comes to mind.

[qprted]

one of my all time heros was brian clough and when i heard that warnock was using the clough system I guess I FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM
i love that story of how warnock copies clough and stays away from the players most of the time but turns up on the friday before the game and rips the players to pieces so they are terrified to fail
i just wished we had given him to the end of the season,if we had gone up into the prem jimmy floyde could have been brought into the club as his assistant,what a combination that would have been

[Shepherds Mush]

And if TF hadn't allowed himself to have his head turned and stuck by his manager, do you think we would've finished higher up the table, instead of escaping by the skin of our teeth on the final day?.............And also who do you think would have spent less money (on wages and fees) in achieving that out of the two managers?

Nope, I think we'd have finished the same with Warnock to be honest. The next season would have been the same. In fact, he probably would have kept us a solid bottom 4 club (his level) until we finally dropped.

Think the money issue in that season was about even. Where Warnock had Barton, Traore, Ferdinand and the gem of them all SWP on average Fees but stupid wages - Hughes equalled it with an Onuha, Cisse and Zamora.

[qprted]

if you look

if you look at what hughes has done at stoke its difficult to imagine how he screwed qpr up so badly,ive always thought that hughes is a good manager but when qpr started to slide under eccleston and briatore its very difficult to get qpr back into the groove
looking back it would have been better if warnock was given lots more money and then hopefully he could have slowly get qpr to hold there position and finnally consolodate us as a prem club

[Shepherds Mush]

if you look at what hughes has done at stoke its difficult to imagine how he screwed qpr up so badly,ive always thought that hughes is a good manager but when qpr started to slide under eccleston and briatore its very difficult to get qpr back into the groove
looking back it would have been better if warnock was given lots more money and then hopefully he could have slowly get qpr to hold there position and finnally consolodate us as a prem club

Hughes has had a stable side at Stoke and just added to it. At QPR he walked into a bunch of individuals and never really sorted it out.

[nasser95]

How many away games did we lose and how many home games did we win and draw?

Also, where were we in the league when he left?....well clear of relegation or in the bottom 3?

Home record was 1 win, 4 draws and 5 losses with three losses in a row in his last month with us. That one win was against Chelsea as we all remember. Away record was 3 wins, 1 draw and 6 losses, wins against Everton, Stoke, Wolves. We didn't win a single game from the 19th November until the end of his time at the club, a run which lasted 8 games.

What position were we when he was sacked? We were 17th on 17 points after 20 games, with Bolton just below us on 16 points and Wigan and Blackburn on 15 and 14 respectively. Keeping up that form we would have ended the season on 32 points and would have led to relegation. Hughes Managed 20 points in 18 games when he came in and got the one simple rule of premier league survival sorted out: Make your home a fortress, leading to 6 home wins in 9 and one draw, but losing 8 and drawing 1 in 9 away games. People thinking that doesn't look good, it is much easier to be a consistent team at home and succeed than be better away from home and that's why we stayed up, we learnt to win at home. Only Man City, Man Utd and Everton won more home games than us during hughes' run in that first season.

[Stanley]

How many away games did we lose and how many home games did we win and draw?

See Nasser's reply

Also, where were we in the league when he left?....well clear of relegation or in the bottom 3?

Outside the bottom 3.

Home record was 1 win, 4 draws and 5 losses with three losses in a row in his last month with us. That one win was against Chelsea as we all remember. Away record was 3 wins, 1 draw and 6 losses, wins against Everton, Stoke, Wolves.

10 points in 10 away games was a pretty good return for our first season back in the PL, especially considering he'd been prevented from signing any of his first choice targets in the summer.

What position were we when he was sacked? We were 17th on 17 points after 20 games, with Bolton just below us on 16 points and Wigan and Blackburn on 15 and 14 respectively. Keeping up that form we would have ended the season on 32 points and would have led to relegation.

IF we'd kept up that form for the entire season i.e. far too hypothetical.

Hughes Managed 20 points in 18 games when he came in and got the one simple rule of premier league survival sorted out: Make your home a fortress, leading to 6 home wins in 9 and one draw, but losing 8 and drawing 1 in 9 away games. People thinking that doesn't look good, it is much easier to be a consistent team at home and succeed than be better away from home and that's why we stayed up, we learnt to win at home. Only Man City, Man Utd and Everton won more home games than us during hughes' run in that first season.

The fact is Hughes' overall record was poor and we were lucky to stay up - evidenced by the fact that the decline continued under him the following season until he eventually had to be sacked.

Furthermore, Warnock was not sacked purely for footballing reasons, as was well-documented and reported.

[nasser95]

See Nasser's reply



Outside the bottom 3.



10 points in 10 away games was a pretty good return for our first season back in the PL, especially considering he'd been prevented from signing any of his first choice targets in the summer.



IF we'd kept up that form for the entire season i.e. far too hypothetical.



The fact is Hughes' overall record was poor and we were lucky to stay up - evidenced by the fact that the decline continued under him the following season until he eventually had to be sacked.

Furthermore, Warnock was not sacked purely for footballing reasons, as was well-documented and reported.

So you still firmly believe warnock would have kept us up?

also, 10 points from 10 away games would be pretty good if we had more than 7 points from 10 home games and it is a far too risky game to rely on away results over home results. Look as well at who those home matches were against and realise that these are games we should be winning and yet warnock couldn't win them. Of the 10 home matches we managed to lose 5 against Bolton, Man City, Man Utd, Sunderland and Norwich, Drawing to Blackburn, West Brom, Villa, Newcastle. I'd say there are 3 matches there where we weren't expected to be winning at home (City, Utd, Newcastle) but all the others, we definitely should have gotten much more than we did and that is not acceptable, Irrespective of away form.

Look at our away results in that time, the 3 wins already mentioned against Wolves, Everton and Stoke were fantastic games but then you look at the others: Losing to Fulham, Liverpool, Wigan, Spurs, Norwich, Arsenal and Drawing to Swansea. Obviously this is better than the home record but anything was and the Losses to Fulham, Wigan and Norwich are really jarring looking back.

At the end of the day, you look at hughes' form and you can see a much more cohesive strategy in play with wins against Wigan, Liverpool, Arsenal, Swansea, Spurs, Stoke at home and a draw against Everton. Disappointing results initially weren't ignored, losing to Wolves and Fulham is also a big disappointment at home and when matched with 1 away point only against Aston Villa, but bear in mind the unfair Loss to Bolton was a catalyst in the uncertainty towards the end and you have to say that in each of their half seasons that year alone, Hughes showed an understanding of what was needed and did his job as needed. The following season was awful as we all know but in that period alone, there is proof that Warnock would not have kept us up as he could not get the home results we needed in a dog fight. He's a fantastic championship manager but he cannot be a long term solution to a club aiming for the premier league.

[Cjskinz]

Home record was 1 win, 4 draws and 5 losses with three losses in a row in his last month with us. That one win was against Chelsea as we all remember. Away record was 3 wins, 1 draw and 6 losses, wins against Everton, Stoke, Wolves. We didn't win a single game from the 19th November until the end of his time at the club, a run which lasted 8 games.

What position were we when he was sacked? We were 17th on 17 points after 20 games, with Bolton just below us on 16 points and Wigan and Blackburn on 15 and 14 respectively. Keeping up that form we would have ended the season on 32 points and would have led to relegation. Hughes Managed 20 points in 18 games when he came in and got the one simple rule of premier league survival sorted out: Make your home a fortress, leading to 6 home wins in 9 and one draw, but losing 8 and drawing 1 in 9 away games. People thinking that doesn't look good, it is much easier to be a consistent team at home and succeed than be better away from home and that's why we stayed up, we learnt to win at home. Only Man City, Man Utd and Everton won more home games than us during hughes' run in that first season.

Sorry but if you're saying Hughes was the reason we stayed up you are completely mistaken.

The turning point of the season was when the fans had had enough of Barton at the Liverpool game were all calling for Mackie. I don't think Hughes would have brought him on if the crowd weren't so vocal about bringing Mackie on. Mackie then comes on, galvanizes the squad and wins the game for us. This was the turning point and this is what gave us the belief to stay up. Not Mark Hughes.

[Shepherds Mush]

Sorry but if you're saying Hughes was the reason we stayed up you are completely mistaken.

The turning point of the season was when the fans had had enough of Barton at the Liverpool game were all calling for Mackie. I don't think Hughes would have brought him on if the crowd weren't so vocal about bringing Mackie on. Mackie then comes on, galvanizes the squad and wins the game for us. This was the turning point and this is what gave us the belief to stay up. Not Mark Hughes.

The reason we stayed up was simply that Bolton were worse than us.

[Hove Ranger]

Maybe there wasn't 1 reason why we stayed up or even why we were relegated the subsequent season but rather a combination of various things.