Controversial, I feel sorry for CR and LF

[Kit]

How many managers have Watford had in the last 18month? Keep sacking till u find something that works imo (ala Warnock).

Watford have got lucky, as their ethos over the last few seasons has been extremely poor, abusing the loans system, sacking manager after manager, had we done this the papers would have had a field day. Somehow they have stumbled along what seems to be a very good manager whose playing system compliments the Premier League and Troy Deeney has been a revelation, when I think all of us agreed that 10 million was a ridiculous figure put on his head last season.

[Ramsey is god]

He has kept Premiership quality players yet can't make a team out of them. That says more about CR than anything. As for his wonder buys Perch and Konchesky!

who are these prem quality players?

Fer - back to back relegation's suggests no
Sandro - injured far too often. If he didnt have injury problems he does, he wouldnt be here.
Phillips - a dozen good games in the prem?

Austin - well no1 wanted to pay for him.

[Geng]

4-2-3-1 is not such a new revolutionary playing system so that any professional footballer couldn't adapt to it within a couple of weeks.
It would be easy to play Luongo box to box midfielder but instead Ramsey plays there a very defensive defensive midfielder and that is one of our problems. Not the players who are better than we ever expected but a manager who is worse we could ever believe.

This. It's been the default formation in the top two divisions of English football for about a decade now.

[MattyRangers]

This. It's been the default formation in the top two divisions of English football for about a decade now.

It's $hit too. Get it away, but at home would much rather see 442.

I am adamant the next PL manager that plays 442 will be hailed a tactical genius.

[Shania]

What you need is a balance. You need to find the right mix of ball winner and ball player. CR is implementing a type of football, where you play a 4231 with one of the two centre mids being a purist ball winner and the other being a deep lying ball player. In implementing this long term, you have to keep to it. Unfortunately for us and for him, it means Henry and Sandro are the only two real players to fit that mould and Sandro doesn't stay fit long enough meaning we are left with almighty King Kelvin. The other player it seems he is trying to go for is between faurlin and Toszer but the reason he may be picking Tozser over Faurlin is for set piece purposes (I think we've all been disappointed by Chery's delivery this season). It is a style that can work but the issue is having Henry and Tozser slows it all down. Sandro brings energy and belief that he can and will win the ball back. Perhaps Doughty might offer this but I suspect his physique needs to be worked on.

Thanks, Nasser. This was a very good and insightful explanation,IMO.

[Geng]

It's $hit too. Get it away, but at home would much rather see 442.

I am adamant the next PL manager that plays 442 will be hailed a tactical genius.

Leicester played it at the weekend. Sunderland too. Man City back when they had Negredo/Dzeko with Aguero. Not too common though.

Ridiculous to call 4231 "$hit" though. Formations aren't inherently attacking or defensive, it's what you make of them. We went 442 for the last 30 mins or so the other night and completely conceded the game, for instance. The most boring defensive side in history, that awful Norway team in the 1990s, played 442. Bayern often play 231, etc etc.

My point was simply that it's only among English football fans that 442 is the default and everything else is a fancy innovation. The rest of the world, including modern professional footballers, have moved on from this.

[Geng]

What you need is a balance. You need to find the right mix of ball winner and ball player. CR is implementing a type of football, where you play a 4231 with one of the two centre mids being a purist ball winner and the other being a deep lying ball player. In implementing this long term, you have to keep to it. Unfortunately for us and for him, it means Henry and Sandro are the only two real players to fit that mould and Sandro doesn't stay fit long enough meaning we are left with almighty King Kelvin. The other player it seems he is trying to go for is between faurlin and Toszer but the reason he may be picking Tozser over Faurlin is for set piece purposes (I think we've all been disappointed by Chery's delivery this season). It is a style that can work but the issue is having Henry and Tozser slows it all down. Sandro brings energy and belief that he can and will win the ball back. Perhaps Doughty might offer this but I suspect his physique needs to be worked on.

Yep good post. The best 4231s have a really nicely balanced midfield two: Derry/Faurlin, Mascherano/Alonso, Fernandinho/YYT, etc.

Faurlin / Sandro is probably the ideal two right now. Faurlin / Henry would be ok. Faurlin + Toszer would get torn apart.

[nasser95]

Yep good post. The best 4231s have a really nicely balanced midfield two: Derry/Faurlin, Mascherano/Alonso, Fernandinho/YYT, etc.

Faurlin / Sandro is probably the ideal two right now. Faurlin / Henry would be ok. Faurlin + Toszer would get torn apart.

Exactly, the logic is that Toszer and Henry should do well, the reality is that because neither have any pace, even though stylistically they compliment one another, they cannot work.

[californiahoop]

He has to play a system to suit the players he has, whatever system he thought he would play preseason has to be thrown out of the window.

Chery is no winger but is a 10.
Phillips is no inside forward but is a wideman
Austin is no target man but is a goal scorer
Fer is no wideman but is a 10.
Mas is no inside forward but a box to box midfielder.
Ned is no FB.

That is six players playing out of position in the current system, big problem!

Austin may well be able to play up front on his own, but if the rest of the team is set up incorrectly, he will end up in areas where he isn't as comfortable!

Might even argue the point that JET was brought as a 10 but might turn out to be a good target man?

Change the system to suit the players!

[dogsrrs]

He has to play a system to suit the players he has, whatever system he thought he would play preseason has to be thrown out of the window.

Chery is no winger but is a 10.
Phillips is no inside forward but is a wideman
Austin is no target man but is a goal scorer
Fer is no wideman but is a 10.
Mas is no inside forward but a box to box midfielder.
Ned is no FB.

That is six players playing out of position in the current system, big problem!

Austin may well be able to play up front on his own, but if the rest of the team is set up incorrectly, he will end up in areas where he isn't as comfortable!

Might even argue the point that JET was brought as a 10 but might turn out to be a good target man?

Change the system to suit the players!

Quite right on all accounts , but pray tell us where has the pity gone ?

[californiahoop]

Lol, Fer, Phillips and Austin where to be sold and stayed, he ended up trying to fit square pegs in round holes, he should have picked a system to suit the players not try to shoehorn them in.

I understand what has happened and why but he has to change his system, he maybe a stubborn man, and that will be his downfall

[dogsrrs]

Lol, Fer, Phillips and Austin where to be sold and stayed, he ended up trying to fit square pegs in round holes, he should have picked a system to suit the players not try to shoehorn them in.

I understand what has happened and why but he has to change his system, he maybe a stubborn man, and that will be his downfall

Cant put that down to Fer Cali he hasn't played that much he didn' have to play Austin and Phillips untill he had his system up and running as you said if he's stubborn he could have stood the shlt he's proved that all season

[californiahoop]

Not blaming Fer, he has to find a system to get as many of his best players on the pitch, and have the balls to leave some on the bench and not try to get them all in the pitch at the same time!

[dogsrrs]

Not blaming Fer, he has to find a system to get as many of his best players on the pitch, and have the balls to leave done on the bench and not try to get them all in the pitch at the same time!

Cali buddy this his plans were disorganized is more than a bit thin he was planning to go into a season with bunch of new commers made up of lower league young novices at this level , and then inherited real quality at this level and his plans fell apart ! do me a favour

[californiahoop]

I hope you realise I am not defending CR, I stated I felt sorry for him but I believe he should have made a better fist of things!

He tried to play players in unfamiliar positions, it hasn't worked, he needs to change things, if he starts with the same system and team, he truly deserves what he gets!

After preaching that he plays players out of position, I think he should play Paul Kon. at CB and bring Yun back if he is fit.