The Rooney Rule

[Awin]

So in the 1970s you would have equally been happy with the status quo regards players then?

[dsqpr]

So in the 1970s you would have equally been happy with the status quo regards players then?

Not sure if you're talking to me but since the last post was mine, I'll assume so. My previous post had nothing to do with the state of football in the 70s, it was simply to show that nasser is talking rubbish and contradicting himself. It's hard to debate with somebody who is talking rubbish.

As for the 70s, I believe that one of the key reasons there were no black players is that they didn't play football much before then! It is also quite likely that in addition, they were discriminated against but once managers saw they were good players they started picking them! The situation has resolved itself without the need for any racist rule like the so called "Rooney rule"!

[brightonr]

No one has suggested a quota of jobs for black managers but merely opening up the interview process.

The link I was responding to says exactly that. Target of 20% BME coaches by 2020. Perhaps you didn't read it.

Using this as a single example, Ince didn't succeed. Fair enough. The issue is that he didn't get another opportunity. Look at the countless other managers who have failed in the premier league but have been given chances again.

Nasser, you should quit whilst you are behind. Paul Ince, after leaving Blackburn, left Notts County having only achieved a 13th place finish in League 1. He went to Notts County where he left after setting a club record of 9 defeats in a row. During his time at Blackpool, he won only 12 out of 42 games.

If you were a PL chairman, would that be a reason to take a chance on him? No, of course not. But you just keep on believing it was for a different reason.

Your inability to make your case is astonishing mate.

Once again and the final time I'll ask you. Please provide the evidence that "the doors were not previously open to the minorities in the first place".

We have already established that at QPR, they most certainly were.

[nasser95]

Not sure if you're talking to me but since the last post was mine, I'll assume so. My previous post had nothing to do with the state of football in the 70s, it was simply to show that nasser is talking rubbish and contradicting himself. It's hard to debate with somebody who is talking rubbish.

As for the 70s, I believe that one of the key reasons there were no black players is that they didn't play football much before then! It is also quite likely that in addition, they were discriminated against but once managers saw they were good players they started picking them! The situation has resolved itself without the need for any racist rule like the so called "Rooney rule"!

I didn't actually contradict myself. There is no correlation on the basis that there isn't enough data to give an actual suggestion that there could be one.

[bushcelt1]

Wow you clearly are missing the point ...

I'm not missing any point-my answer was to ince not the colour of his skin because he really is s hit as is keene. Would you want ince at rangers? I have no problem with chris ramsey or anyother manager(black or white) in the hot seat as long as he has a right good go. We sang about ince at ol trafford in 95 in the cup-if you remember it was about him not that was black.

[dsqpr]

I didn't actually contradict myself.

More rubbish!

There is no correlation on the basis that there isn't enough data to give an actual suggestion that there could be one.

Just because nobody has gathered data to show a correlation does not mean a correlation does not exist! The correlation either exists or it doesn't, regardless of whether we gather data to show it. If we suspect two things are correlated and think that confirming it would provide some benefit, we gather data to show it. You are showing a rather astonishing lack of capacity to understand this rather simple point.

Edit: And since you seem to be having trouble grasping the key point I have made above, I'll repeat it here:
My understanding is that you are saying there is institutional racism because black managers are statistically under represented in managerial jobs (in other words, you are saying that the statistical under representation of black managers proves institutional racism).

I am saying that the statistical under representation of black managers does NOT prove institutional racism because there is another possible explanation: that black managers (on the average) simply aren't as good as white ones (just as basketball players under 6 feet tall simply aren't as good as ones who are taller). I don't know that to be the case because nobody has gathered data to try to establish a correlation between race and ability as a football manager. I'm just saying that anybody with an open mind must accept that it is POSSIBLE until proven otherwise. Which proves that any statistical under representation of black managers is NOT proof of institutional racism.

[nasser95]

More rubbish!


Just because nobody has gathered data to show a correlation does not mean a correlation does not exist! The correlation either exists or it doesn't, regardless of whether we gather data to show it. If we suspect two things are correlated and think that confirming it would provide some benefit, we gather data to show it. You are showing a rather astonishing lack of capacity to understand this rather simple point.

You must have some issue trying to validate the covering of your eyes to a very valid problem that exists, as well as your lack of understanding of statistical analysis.

[dsqpr]

You must have some issue trying to validate the covering of your eyes to a very valid problem that exists, as well as your lack of understanding of statistical analysis.

Ha ha ha, so there is a problem because you say so?! And I would say it is VERY clear from the discussion above that you are the one having trouble interpreting the numbers.

As the rather amusing saying goes: you use statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts... for support rather than illumination.

[dsqpr]

Just because nobody has gathered data to show a correlation does not mean a correlation does not exist! The correlation either exists or it doesn't, regardless of whether we gather data to show it. If we suspect two things are correlated and think that confirming it would provide some benefit, we gather data to show it. You are showing a rather astonishing lack of capacity to understand this rather simple point.

Edit: And since you seem to be having trouble grasping the key point I have made above, I'll repeat it here:
My understanding is that you are saying there is institutional racism because black managers are statistically under represented in managerial jobs (in other words, you are saying that the statistical under representation of black managers proves institutional racism).

I am saying that the statistical under representation of black managers does NOT prove institutional racism because there is another possible explanation: that black managers (on the average) simply aren't as good as white ones (just as basketball players under 6 feet tall simply aren't as good as ones who are taller). I don't know that to be the case because nobody has gathered data to try to establish a correlation between race and ability as a football manager. I'm just saying that anybody with an open mind must accept that it is POSSIBLE until proven otherwise. Which proves that any statistical under representation of black managers is NOT proof of institutional racism.

Feel free to post a rebuttal to this anytime nasser. Rather than just saying that I don't understand statistical analysis (which is not true!)!

[Hove Ranger]

[Kirill]

Definitely veered off the QPR section material now.

[1cliveallen]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.. Football has been a great source of family entertainment for over 100 years, why does it matter what colour managers or players are? With regards to percentages of black people in Britain,playing football and managing it, how many actually go to football? Percentage wise I mean? Seems areas with high ethnicity levels Leicester Blackburn Luton Rotherham Bradford for example don't have high numbers of ethnic supporters. Maybe that needs addressing more than the manager issue.

[Maidohoops]

The point is it is broke. It is withhout argument that ethnic minorities are woefully under represented within the coaching and management of football within this country. As for the point regarding supporters, that is not an issue -

"while 11% were from an ethnic minority. The significance of that figure is that ethnic minorities actually make up 8% of the wider population. So they enjoy greater representation at Premier League games than in society as a whole."

Source - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...r-all-....html

[brightonr]

The point is it is broke. It is withhout argument that ethnic minorities are woefully under represented within the coaching and management of football within this country. As for the point regarding supporters, that is not an issue -

"while 11% were from an ethnic minority. The significance of that figure is that ethnic minorities actually make up 8% of the wider population. So they enjoy greater representation at Premier League games than in society as a whole."

Source - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...r-all-....html

Forgive me, but if the wider population is made up of only 8%, why are those seeking change in your link seeking 20% ?

[Stanley]

Finger is Hovering Hove