The Rooney Rule

[Stanley]

I think it's about time this was properly debated, particularly given the ethnicity of QPR board members, DoF and head coach.

Reading this forum, it seems there's some misunderstanding about the The Rooney Rule. It is certainly not that a quota of job applicants from ethnic minorities have to actually be given jobs; but that a quota must at least be given the opportunity of a job interview.

The Rooney Rule was first introduced in the US for American Football in 2003 due to findings of institutional racism within the sport's industry WRT the hiring and firing of coaches from varied ethnicities.

Who is to say that similar types of issues have not been commonplace in the UK within the football industry? I'm white and don't work in the industry so I couldn't comment with any absolute authority. But we all know that both Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey are on record as saying they've had direct experience of it, having witnessed it, as well as being victims of it, and not just during their playing careers.

No polls needed for now, just a debate.

[Johnnykc]

Hear what you're saying Stanley......but even choosing a candidate for interview purely to tick ethnic boxes doesn't seem right to me...

[nasser95]

Matty bang on the money again.

If a black manager hasn't got the job because of the colour of his skin then the owners should get carpeted for racism. Having a quota to be met means there may well be better qualified people ouside the quota not getting a chance at the job, that's discrimination.

Like Nas said, a high proportion of black players play football/sports. Should a Rooney rule come into play there? Of course not.

Best people to get the best jobs, anyone guilty of racism should feel the law. Rooney rule =- nonsense.

I think the point of the rooney rule is that it doesn't force clubs to hire black managers but it forces them to interview one. The issue is that this sport has established and inherent stereotyping that limits opportunities for people of colour to get a job in the sport. This is a 100% absolute fact and having a rooney rule will allow for more open entry into the sport and ensure that everyone who is qualified gets a chance to at least interview at the club.

[lymehoop]

blacks applying for vacant managers jobs are complaining, justifiably, that they are not even getting an interview, that clearly is not right

[Kevin Mcleod]

I dont even understand why Wayne got himself involved with all this black v white rubbish. If you go for a job and you are capable you will get the job.


#CanItBeTheColourOfMySkin

[Ramsey is god]

I think it's about time this was properly debated, particularly given the ethnicity of QPR board members, DoF and head coach.

Reading this forum, it seems there's some misunderstanding about the The Rooney Rule. It is certainly not that a quota of job applicants from ethnic minorities have to actually be given jobs; but that a quota must at least be given the opportunity of a job interview.

The Rooney Rule was first introduced in the US for American Football in 2003 due to findings of institutional racism within the sport's industry WRT the hiring and firing of coaches from varied ethnic backgrounds.

Who is to say that similar types of issues have not been commonplace in the UK within the football industry? I'm white and don't work in the industry so I couldn't comment with any absolute authority. But we all know that both Les Ferdinand and Chris Ramsey are on record as saying they've had direct experience of it, having witnessed it, as well as being on the receiving end of it, and not just during their playing careers.

No polls needed for now, just a debate.

Think this was probably years ago. Perhaps i am being Naive, but dont think this is an issue as such in modern day football. Will just take some time to blood through younger coaches

[Stanley]

Here's a quote from Ramsey himself:

Ricky Hill would never work in England again and the whole experience convinced Ramsey that black coaches faced a glass ceiling.

“There is institutional racism,” he said at the time. “I’ve been around and worked hard to get qualifications, and I believe it is much harder for black coaches to be given opportunities. We’re still seen, somehow, as not management material.”

That conviction has never left Ramsey, but nor has it stopped him. After winning the USL A-League (second division) with Battery in 2003, he accepted an offer to join Spurs as head of player development.

And it was there that his finest work would be done, crafting a generation of England stars in tandem with Les Ferdinand and Tim Sherwood.

“He is one of the best coaches in the country,” Ledley King told the Evening Standard in 2012. “The youngsters love the way he works and they have really bought into his methods.

http://www.theleaguepaper.com/latest-news/football-league-championship/2131/everything-you-need-to-know-about-chris-ramsey/

[knocker]

Best person for the job. End of.

[Ramsey is god]

Think that quote comes from a long time ago Stanley.

I read that article and found it very interesting as didn't know too much about him prior to joining us

[Jogo]

Always makes me laugh to hear John Barnes bang on about this. He was given a plum job at Celtic and ####ed it up, then Tranmere Rovers gave him a go and he royally ####ed that up as well. Plenty have had an opportunity...Barnes..Ince..Alexander..Powell, I don't see an issue if your good enough.

[nasser95]

Always makes me laugh to hear John Barnes bang on about this. He was given a plum job at Celtic and ####ed it up, then Tranmere Rovers gave him a go and he royally ####ed that up as well. Plenty have had an opportunity...Barnes..Ince..Alexander..Powell, I don't see an issue if your good enough.

He didn't even do that badly at celtic (65.5% win rate). Issue was that with rangers in that league, it was always going to be one manager or the other to get the sack.

[nasser95]

Again, I'm going to recommend to read Soccernomics because there is a full chapter which proves the absolute institutional racism within the sport that limits the potential of black managers getting jobs.

[MattyRangers]

Best person for the job. End of.

Always makes me laugh to hear John Barnes bang on about this. He was given a plum job at Celtic and ####ed it up, then Tranmere Rovers gave him a go and he royally ####ed that up as well. Plenty have had an opportunity...Barnes..Ince..Alexander..Powell, I don't see an issue if your good enough.

What they said.

John Barnes is a price pr1ck and is out to look to be offended wherever he can. Has a whole potato on his shoulder. Rooney rule is a load of rubbish IMHO, why on earth should there be a rule enforced to dictate that you HAVE to consider ethnics for a job. If it happens that there are yellow, black, brown, white & blue people that look like good candidates, so be it. If not, so what, you shouldn't be forced to consider somebody just because of their ethnic origin.

Not that I am involved in the industry at all, but I find it very very very hard to believe that club owners sit round a table when considering their next manager and say "he looks a great gaffer but we can't interview him, he is black". No way does that happen.

[nasser95]

What they said.

John Barnes is a price pr1ck and is out to look to be offended wherever he can. Has a whole potato on his shoulder. Rooney rule is a load of rubbish IMHO, why on earth should there be a rule enforced to dictate that you HAVE to consider ethnics for a job. If it happens that there are yellow, black, brown, white & blue people that look like good candidates, so be it. If not, so what, you shouldn't be forced to consider somebody just because of their ethnic origin.

Not that I am involved in the industry at all, but I find it very very very hard to believe that club owners sit round a table when considering their next manager and say "he looks a great gaffer but we can't interview him, he is black". No way does that happen.

The thing about it Matty is that this isn't what happens. Again, highly recommend reading Soccernomics but a bit of a summary of it is that football is so stupidly different from other professions. Managers don't go through the application process that people in industry go through. Managers are generally chosen as crowd pleasers. These are people who 'look' the part most and unfortunately, due to the institutional racism within the sport, Black managers have a much harder time getting past that original stage. Their qualifications don't matter because they never get to that stage of having their qualifications checked.

[MattyRangers]

The thing about it Matty is that this isn't what happens. Again, highly recommend reading Soccernomics but a bit of a summary of it is that football is so stupidly different from other professions. Managers don't go through the application process that people in industry go through. Managers are generally chosen as crowd pleasers. These are people who 'look' the part most and unfortunately, due to the institutional racism within the sport, Black managers have a much harder time getting past that original stage. Their qualifications don't matter because they never get to that stage of having their qualifications checked.

Fair enough Nasser I don't knowmuch about the managerial appointment process so can't argue with what you said there.