Really Frustrated

[brightonr]

You're splitting hairs. Of course PB is involved in player acquisition but only on the money side of things.

You said "Surely, the manager should be responsible for getting the right players, provided only that he can get them for a fair deal and not allow us to be ripped off in the process".

A fair deal and not being ripped off is PB's job is it not?

Have to agree to disagree on this one then mate.

The whole thing should be down to the manager. If the manager wants him and the deal fits in with our wage structure, then fine. Can't quite see how PB would be to blame, unless of course he dictates the wage structure etc., which I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

[Mattyqpr]

Right yes.. But I think this team do care.

Who are we stuck with? What players are on ludicrous contracts?.. Barton, SWP and Hoilett?.. cos two of them will be gone next season anyway when their contracts expire.

You haven't spoke about Mutch fer or caulker.. READ what I said.. I said those players were HR's players.. That's not a point im making up as I go along. Im trying to understand which players you are talking about?.. Mutch, Fer and Caulker were signed by HR mate so im not sure what you mean?

Making up points as I go along? Your confusing me now because I really am not. I think you just like an argument. Stop crying for god sake...

Again you are speaking about mercenaries only here for the money... WHO are you talking about? WHICH players?....... We haven't got any mercenaries this season IMO.

As I just posted, it's nowhere near as much as a problem as last time but I feel we still have to many who fit that bracket.

Traore will be on a decent wage, around 35k? Who's going to take that contract over? Phillips probably around 20k, again a lot of money for a Championship club to pay. Barton, SWP and Hoilett are all on north of 60k a week, not even PL clubs will pay them anywhere near that and Zamora was on the same wage prior to signing his new deal but not sure on the terms of that. Barton and Hoilett have 18 months to run don't they?

Why have you brought Fer, Mutch and Caulker into this debate though? That's my question, as we were talking about Traore, Hill, Phillips, Barton, SWP, Kranjcar, Hoilett and Zamora?

Mercenaries or players who don't care that we still have in our squad in my opinion are Traore, Rio, Phillips, Fer, SWP, Hoilett, Kranjcar, Zamora and Taarabt.

9 players there who I think wouldn't care if we went down. Perhaps I'm being harsh on a few but performances lead me to believe this. I don't think any would break their neck to save us?

[Mattyqpr]

Have to agree to disagree on this one then mate.

The whole thing should be down to the manager. If the manager wants him and the deal fits in with our wage structure, then fine. Can't quite see how PB would be to blame, unless of course he dictates the wage structure etc., which I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

Fitting in the wage structure is fine but you have to question why the majority of our signings are all at the high end of this structure and have long contracts? It seems to me PB and the club are far too soft and agents eyes must light up if we're interested in one of their clients.

[West Acton]

Agree with Brighton don't matter what contract there on its done to manager and coaching staff to get the Max out of them which there not do 100% managers and coaching staffs fault

[West London is Rss]

As I just posted, it's nowhere near as much as a problem as last time but I feel we still have to many who fit that bracket.

Traore will be on a decent wage, around 35k? Who's going to take that contract over? Phillips probably around 20k, again a lot of money for a Championship club to pay. Barton, SWP and Hoilett are all on north of 60k a week, not even PL clubs will pay them anywhere near that and Zamora was on the same wage prior to signing his new deal but not sure on the terms of that. Barton and Hoilett have 18 months to run don't they?

Why have you brought Fer, Mutch and Caulker into this debate though? That's my question, as we were talking about Traore, Hill, Phillips, Barton, SWP, Kranjcar, Hoilett and Zamora?

Mercenaries or players who don't care that we still have in our squad in my opinion are Traore, Rio, Phillips, Fer, SWP, Hoilett, Kranjcar, Zamora and Taarabt.

9 players there who I think wouldn't care if we went down. Perhaps I'm being harsh on a few but performances lead me to believe this. I don't think any would break their neck to save us?

What players fit the bracket?

Someone will take Traore on 30k a week easy. Maybe not in England but Italy, France someone will take him. IMO Phillips aint someone we should give up on, at 22 years old.. He needs coaching, games and confidence. Something which he aint got since signing. With the going rate, 20k a week is about right for him. Bartons is up in the summer, think Hoilett has another year. All in all you have named 3 players in our squad who are on big contract.. Not that many to be honest Matty. Was expecting you to name more...

Ive told you the answer to that in my previous post to you? I didn't know we were only talking about those players which is why I brought in to the conversation the players that HR has signed.

Traore... Turned down Palace did he not recently? To stay with us...
Rio... Has enough money and knew we had a wage cap this season, think he just wanted to carry on playing
Phillips? A mercenary on 20k a week?.. your a harsh man.
Fer? Again we have a wage cap and he is a young Dutch international.. he probably had many other options than us but chose to come to us.
SWP.. Yes we all know that
Hoilett.. Yes maybe at the time.
Kranjcar? Harsh again Matty.. This guys openly said he took a massive wage cut to join us on loan?
Zamora? Scored our play off winning goal and wanted to stay on a reduced contract as his old one expired in the summer
Tarbs.. No comment.

Bar Hoilett and SWP I think your very harsh there... VERY harsh.

By the way is Mutch not a mercenary as well in your eyes?

[Mattyqpr]

Agree with Brighton don't matter what contract there on its done to manager and coaching staff to get the Max out of them which there not do 100% managers and coaching staffs fault

Fair enough.

Can I ask why Hughes has only failed here then? It would be a bit unlucky if we were the only place where he didn't get the best out of his players?

[nasser95]

What players fit the bracket?

Someone will take Traore on 30k a week easy. Maybe not in England but Italy, France someone will take him. IMO Phillips aint someone we should give up on, at 22 years old.. He needs coaching, games and confidence. Something which he aint got since signing. With the going rate, 20k a week is about right for him. Bartons is up in the summer, think Hoilett has another year. All in all you have named 3 players in our squad who are on big contract.. Not that many to be honest Matty. Was expecting you to name more...

Ive told you the answer to that in my previous post to you? I didn't know we were only talking about those players which is why I brought in to the conversation the players that HR has signed.

Traore... Turned down Palace did he not recently? To stay with us...
Rio... Has enough money and knew we had a wage cap this season, think he just wanted to carry on playing
Phillips? A mercenary on 20k a week?.. your a harsh man.
Fer? Again we have a wage cap and he is a young Dutch international.. he probably had many other options than us but chose to come to us.
SWP.. Yes we all know that
Hoilett.. Yes maybe at the time.
Kranjcar? Harsh again Matty.. This guys openly said he took a massive wage cut to join us on loan?
Zamora? Scored our play off winning goal and wanted to stay on a reduced contract as his old one expired in the summer
Tarbs.. No comment.

Bar Hoilett and SWP I think your very harsh there... VERY harsh.

By the way is Mutch not a mercenary as well in your eyes?

Actually agree with this, very harsh to question a player's commitment because he isn't performing. Many players have repeatedly said there is something special about the fans of this club and about the feeling of the club itself. It explains why Zamora always works hard, why Kranjcar took that wage cut, why fer runs around for the team all the time, same for Matty. some may be out of form, but doesn't make them mercenaries.
For the first three, I wouldn't imagine traore took a buck up in wages last season, probably just an extension and certainly wouldn't call him a mercenary. Barton may have joined the club for the money but there is plenty he has done recently to prove he has stayed for more than that. Hoilett clearly tries and as poor as he is, his work ethic is definitely there.

[Mattyqpr]

What players fit the bracket?

Someone will take Traore on 30k a week easy. Maybe not in England but Italy, France someone will take him. IMO Phillips aint someone we should give up on, at 22 years old.. He needs coaching, games and confidence. Something which he aint got since signing. With the going rate, 20k a week is about right for him. Bartons is up in the summer, think Hoilett has another year. All in all you have named 3 players in our squad who are on big contract.. Not that many to be honest Matty. Was expecting you to name more...

Ive told you the answer to that in my previous post to you? I didn't know we were only talking about those players which is why I brought in to the conversation the players that HR has signed.

Traore... Turned down Palace did he not recently? To stay with us...
Rio... Has enough money and knew we had a wage cap this season, think he just wanted to carry on playing
Phillips? A mercenary on 20k a week?.. your a harsh man.
Fer? Again we have a wage cap and he is a young Dutch international.. he probably had many other options than us but chose to come to us.
SWP.. Yes we all know that
Hoilett.. Yes maybe at the time.
Kranjcar? Harsh again Matty.. This guys openly said he took a massive wage cut to join us on loan?
Zamora? Scored our play off winning goal and wanted to stay on a reduced contract as his old one expired in the summer
Tarbs.. No comment.

Bar Hoilett and SWP I think your very harsh there... VERY harsh.

By the way is Mutch not a mercenary as well in your eyes?

Why is Traore still here then? Didn't Harry say he can leave as soon as he walked in? I agree with Phillips, I think he's just lacking confidence, which is the fault of the management team. Yeah, you're right regarding Barton. I can name a lot more than 3 who are on a big contract, I was naming the players who I originally included in my not good enough list.

Why do you think Traore turned down Palace? Come on! I also said players "wouldn't care if we went down" and that's why I included Rio (retiring), Phillips (never looks interested), Fer is on a big wedge, Kranjcar the man who just wanted out of Ukraine, not a mercenary but certainly wouldn't put his body on the line, second goal against United being a prime example of his attitude. Zamora retiring at the end of the season, said years ago he doesn't even like football and has proved he couldn't care since signing here. Scored the winner and suddenly he's a hero.

Why would Mutch be a mercenary?

[West Acton]

Fair enough.

Can I ask why Hughes has only failed here then? It would be a bit unlucky if we were the only place where he didn't get the best out of his players?

Sacked at city after poor run, mutiny at Fulham where players confronted him saying they never wanted to play his way which saved there season as he caved in

In hindsight Hughes was not as bad as some of us thought but he is as guilty as Harry

[Mattyqpr]

Actually agree with this, very harsh to question a player's commitment because he isn't performing. Many players have repeatedly said there is something special about the fans of this club and about the feeling of the club itself. It explains why Zamora always works hard, why Kranjcar took that wage cut, why fer runs around for the team all the time, same for Matty. some may be out of form, but doesn't make them mercenaries.
For the first three, I wouldn't imagine traore took a buck up in wages last season, probably just an extension and certainly wouldn't call him a mercenary. Barton may have joined the club for the money but there is plenty he has done recently to prove he has stayed for more than that. Hoilett clearly tries and as poor as he is, his work ethic is definitely there.

Zamora works hard? Zamora doesn't even jump! Kranjcar took a wage cut to get out of Ukraine and live the life in London, I think he's got enough money. Fer runs round? You mean runs forward?

Why are they all getting tagged with mercenary? I said mercenaries or players who don't care.

[West Acton]

Zamora works hard? Zamora doesn't even jump! Kranjcar took a wage cut to get out of Ukraine and live the life in London, I think he's got enough money. Fer runs round? You mean runs forward?

Why are they all getting tagged with mercenary? I said mercenaries or players who don't care.

Good analysis of Fer when we were winning at home there we loads on here defending Fers lack of work ethic but since we started losing and he gave two goals away against man and sheff utd they have gone to ground. Good player offensively pointless when your backs against the wall and you need yo dig in

[nasser95]

Zamora works hard? Zamora doesn't even jump! Kranjcar took a wage cut to get out of Ukraine and live the life in London, I think he's got enough money. Fer runs round? You mean runs forward?

Why are they all getting tagged with mercenary? I said mercenaries or players who don't care.

Mercenaries are players who don't care. Do you honestly with all your heart believe that Zamora doesn't care? He sure as hell does and most see that. He has his limitations because of his hip and that is an issue, but he cares. Kranjcar is prone to moments of pure stupidity and laziness, but I am almost certain that he really cares. Fer is happy and accepting playing out of position for almost his entire period at the club. He still works and tries to make things happen. He definitely cares. How many people will ever say they have dreamt of coming to Loftus road? If you found someone who can honestly say that, you would have a team of Facto et al from this board. Everyone is passionate about the club, but that won't matter in the lower reaches of english football - No offence intended to Facto or any members of this board.

[Mattyqpr]

Sacked at city after poor run, mutiny at Fulham where players confronted him saying they never wanted to play his way which saved there season as he caved in

In hindsight Hughes was not as bad as some of us thought but he is as guilty as Harry

Wrongly sacked at City in many people's eyes but yeah that poor run done for him. Never heard of the problems at Fulham but guiding them to an 8th place finish is more than respectable.

I just find it strange how he can be (from the outside) doing a good job at all his clubs and then massively failed here. I think it's not right that everyone seems to fail here under this board.

[West London is Rss]

Why is Traore still here then? Didn't Harry say he can leave as soon as he walked in? I agree with Phillips, I think he's just lacking confidence, which is the fault of the management team. Yeah, you're right regarding Barton. I can name a lot more than 3 who are on a big contract, I was naming the players who I originally included in my not good enough list.

Why do you think Traore turned down Palace? Come on! I also said players "wouldn't care if we went down" and that's why I included Rio (retiring), Phillips (never looks interested), Fer is on a big wedge, Kranjcar the man who just wanted out of Ukraine, not a mercenary but certainly wouldn't put his body on the line, second goal against United being a prime example of his attitude. Zamora retiring at the end of the season, said years ago he doesn't even like football and has proved he couldn't care since signing here. Scored the winner and suddenly he's a hero.

Why would Mutch be a mercenary?

Don't get so defensive... Probably because he wants to be here Matty, its not a crime to want to stay at a club even if you aren't playing. Please name the other ones who you think are on a big contract and who are mercenaries and not trying as you say.

I think your slightly clutching at straws here... I think your very harsh with your opinion on our current players. To assume they don't care because they aren't performing is wrong... This is all well and good but its all assumption, very little fact. We don't actually know the money they are on.

Well if Fer is and Phillips is and Kranjcar is then why is Mutch not? His played very little minutes and could be on more than what Traore or Phillips is...

I think your argument has well and truly slid down the pan here and now I bid you goodnight.

[Mattyqpr]

Mercenaries are players who don't care. Do you honestly with all your heart believe that Zamora doesn't care? He sure as hell does and most see that. He has his limitations because of his hip and that is an issue, but he cares. Kranjcar is prone to moments of pure stupidity and laziness, but I am almost certain that he really cares. Fer is happy and accepting playing out of position for almost his entire period at the club. He still works and tries to make things happen. He definitely cares. How many people will ever say they have dreamt of coming to Loftus road? If you found someone who can honestly say that, you would have a team of Facto et al from this board. Everyone is passionate about the club, but that won't matter in the lower reaches of english football - No offence intended to Facto or any members of this board.

I know what a mercenary is but how can someone be a mercenary when they're not earning mega bucks, that was my point! No I don't think Zamora will be bothered if we go down, nor Niko, nor Fer.

What kind of statement is "How many people will ever say they have dreamt of coming to Loftus road?"? The same can be said for half the PL but they seem to put more of a shift in than our lot. Which begs the question again, why?