Really Frustrated

[Oliver0203]

I agree we are past the point of no return and HR will demand players right until deadline day because that's what he is like. I for one am starting to wish this season was already over now knowing that HR is going to be with us for the duration of it... I really want us to start from scratch. Clear all the oldies Barton, Dunne etc.

Getting rid of dunne?? been one of our best players for the last 18months

[nasser95]

Na I don't think so.. Pulis has gone in there at West Brom and has got them winning with current players. Same as Pardew at Palace.. Pulis also did it with Palace last season.
This is Redknapps team and he is still demanding new players until we start winning. Pulis and Pardew have worked with the players they have got and are getting the best out of them.
Which IMO shows them to be outstanding coaches.

They have won 1 league game, thats it at west brom. Palace have done well but I don't think many people would have been happy here with pardew.

[Mattyqpr]

Well lets be honest.. Traore, Hill and SWP don't play do they.. But the others are good enough to keep us up yes, if they are on their game and have the best brought out of them. Zamora is at his max and will do for the rest of the season. Kranjcar and Hoilett are players which HR needs to get more out of.. Kranjcar has been injured so that statement may be unfair on him but there is Phillips, Mutch, Fer as well, if you want to starting picking out players like you are doing... The management arent getting the max out of these players IMO and part of that is down to the management playing them in un-natural positions.. Fer aint a left winger and Vargas aint a right winger.

You've gone off on ANOTHER rant about 8 players you have picked out there but what are you going to do at this stage of the season with them?

You cant say its hard to get rid and buy players and then rant off on another paragraph saying they aint good enough and we basically need to shift them.
You aint gona do anything with these players and how do we know they are good enough if the management isn't getting the best out of them? HR's mentality is buy more instead of getting more out of the players he already has. Hence why he is a 'manager' and not a coach.

Underperforming can come from not being good enough or not having faith shown in order to get the best out of player.

Damien Delaney plays centre half for Palace.. im pretty sure on paper you would say he aint good enough for the Prem, yet he has performed to his max for Palace

Traore has made 12 appearances this season? It's alright saying they don't play but that's not the point is it. Everyone in the squad should be good enough, that improves the squad in terms of performance due to competition which also reflects getting the best out of players. I agree the management could be getting more out the players but isn't it up to the player himself? Why should it take someone else to get the best out of them? These are professional players who earn thousands and they should be performing at their best regardless. Another factor is players know they'll be playing regardless, that's because our squad isn't good enough. Have you not noticed the effect of signing McCarthy has had on Green's performances? A squad needs a decent level of competition for places, we haven't got that because our squad players aren't good enough.

Where did I say we have to "shift them" in this window?

How do we know they're not good enough? Did you actually just say that!? These aren't players who have been here a week! I love how Harry get's slaughtered for 'making players ####', yet most of the players I mention were poor under Hughes as well. So does Mark Hughes 'make players ####' too? He doesn't seem to have done that at Blackburn, City, Fulham and Stoke? People need to wake up and realise players see our club as a joke and a free ride with a massive wage. Barton admitted he only signed for the money. Do you not think that contributes to players not playing to their potential?

Damien Delaney is an honest professional who's not earning extortionate wages, that's the difference! How many players in our squad can you say are honest and aren't here for the money? How many will put their life on the line to keep us up?

[West London is Rss]

Getting rid of dunne?? been one of our best players for the last 18months

His 35 years of age fella

[West London is Rss]

They have won 1 league game, thats it at west brom. Palace have done well but I don't think many people would have been happy here with pardew.

WBA have betean Hull at home and drawn away to Everton as well Nasser.. its the manner of the performances as well.
We aint talking about managers anyway, were talking about signing players.

[Mattyqpr]

Well, you seem to be saying that some of us would blame everything on HR, yet probably the most important aspect, ie. Player Acquisition, you appear to be saying is the domain of PB.

Surely, the manager should be responsible for getting the right players, provided only that he can get them for a fair deal and not allow us to be ripped off in the process. Don't hear too many complaints about Charlie Austin's contract or his ability and desire to be the best he can.

Maybe PB was on holiday that week.

I think you'll find you appear to be making half of it up! Where have I said player acquisition is Phil Beard's job?

"provided only that he can get them for a fair deal and not allow us to be ripped off in the process" Do you think that's Harry's job or Phil Beard's? I'll give you a clue, it's certainly not Harry's!

[nasser95]

WBA have betean Hull at home and drawn away to Everton as well Nasser.. its the manner of the performances as well.
We aint talking about managers anyway, were talking about signing players.

Ok then, lets see about signing players... Palace signed Yaya Sanogoals. West Brom have signed no one.
They lack quality in most positions to guarantee safety. No one is guaranteed safety from everton downwards IMO, honeymoon periods always end.

[West London is Rss]

Traore has made 12 appearances this season? It's alright saying they don't play but that's not the point is it. Everyone in the squad should be good enough, that improves the squad in terms of performance due to competition which also reflects getting the best out of players. I agree the management could be getting more out the players but isn't it up to the player himself? Why should it take someone else to get the best out of them? These are professional players who earn thousands and they should be performing at their best regardless. Another factor is players know they'll be playing regardless, that's because our squad isn't good enough. Have you not noticed the effect of signing McCarthy has had on Green's performances? A squad needs a decent level of competition for places, we haven't got that because our squad players aren't good enough.

Where did I say we have to "shift them" in this window?

How do we know they're not good enough? Did you actually just say that!? These aren't players who have been here a week! I love how Harry get's slaughtered for 'making players ####', yet most of the players I mention were poor under Hughes as well. So does Mark Hughes 'make players ####' too? He doesn't seem to have done that at Blackburn, City, Fulham and Stoke? People need to wake up and realise players see our club as a joke and a free ride with a massive wage. Barton admitted he only signed for the money. Do you not think that contributes to players not playing to their potential?

Damien Delaney is an honest professional who's not earning extortionate wages, that's the difference! How many players in our squad can you say are honest and aren't here for the money? How many will put their life on the line to keep us up?

Clutching at straws mate.. its up to the management to get the best out of the players by playing them in their actual positions and filling them with confidence. You may as well not have a manager, the way you put it.

If you don't want to shift them in this window, what are you going to do with them then... what is your answer?

Yes I did say that. If they are poor under Hughes and Redknapp what does that say? To you it obviously says, cast them aside they've had enough chances. These are HR's players not Hughes's. Phillips is HR's, Mutch is, Fer is, Caulker is. Hughes's squad is basically gone so im not sure where your getting that from bar Hoilett. I also have no idea where you are going with that rest of that paragraph.. it just seems like another paragraph of a rant because I haven't mentioned Barton coming here for money?

You seem to talk the talk well and think everyone else is wrong.. maybe you should put your CV in?

Sorry whats the difference with Delaney? His on low wages so he performs better?.. Sh1t comparison cos Bartons earning 80k a week and puts his body on the line every week.

[West London is Rss]

Ok then, lets see about signing players... Palace signed Yaya Sanogoals. West Brom have signed no one.
They lack quality in most positions to guarantee safety. No one is guaranteed safety from everton downwards IMO, honeymoon periods always end.

OK. Cheers Nasser.

[brightonr]

I think you'll find you appear to be making half of it up! Where have I said player acquisition is Phil Beard's job?

"provided only that he can get them for a fair deal and not allow us to be ripped off in the process" Do you think that's Harry's job or Phil Beard's? I'll give you a clue, it's certainly not Harry's!

Matty,
Not quite sure then, how you can claim that player acquisition isn't PB's job, yet the other part is.

Surely, they go hand in hand with each other? Well, it used to in my day at least.

Think that PB's role is somewhat over estimated with regard to the "football" side of things.

[Mattyqpr]

Clutching at straws mate.. its up to the management to get the best out of the players by playing them in their actual positions and filling them with confidence. You may as well not have a manager, the way you put it.

If you don't want to shift them in this window, what are you going to do with them then... what is your answer?

Yes I did say that. If they are poor under Hughes and Redknapp what does that say? To you it obviously says, cast them aside they've had enough chances. These are HR's players not Hughes's. Phillips is HR's, Mutch is, Fer is, Caulker is. Hughes's squad is basically gone so im not sure where your getting that from bar Hoilett. I also have no idea where you are going with that rest of that paragraph.. it just seems like another paragraph of a rant because I haven't mentioned Barton coming here for money?

You seem to talk the talk well and think everyone else is wrong.. maybe you should put your CV in?

Sorry whats the difference with Delaney? His on low wages so he performs better?.. Sh1t comparison cos Bartons earning 80k a week and puts his body on the line every week.

I agree the manager and staff should get the best out of them but it's also up to the individual. If he can't be arsed or doesn't care, it doesn't matter who's his manager, right?

Why has this turned into "what are you going to do with them then"? I said they're not good enough and due to the ludicrous contracts they're on, we're stuck with them.

You're making up the points as you go along! What you going on about with Mutch, Fer and Caulker? Where have I spoke about them? I don't recall them being in my 8 player rant? Or aren't you including them because only two are Harry's signings and that would make your "These are HR's players not Hughes's" point invalid?

I think everyone else is wrong? You're the one making up the points as you go along trying to save face and then resulting to insults on other threads? It seems that's you my friend.

Delaney puts his body on the line because he believes in the cause and is at the club because he wants to be and not only there because he's earning mega money.

[Mattyqpr]

Matty,
Not quite sure then, how you can claim that player acquisition isn't PB's job, yet the other part is.

Surely, they go hand in hand with each other? Well, it used to in my day at least.

Think that PB's role is somewhat over estimated with regard to the "football" side of things.

You're splitting hairs. Of course PB is involved in player acquisition but only on the money side of things.

You said "Surely, the manager should be responsible for getting the right players, provided only that he can get them for a fair deal and not allow us to be ripped off in the process".

A fair deal and not being ripped off is PB's job is it not?

[nasser95]

I agree the manager and staff should get the best out of them but it's also up to the individual. If he can't be arsed or doesn't care, it doesn't matter who's his manager, right?

Why has this turned into "what are you going to do with them then"? I said they're not good enough and due to the ludicrous contracts they're on, we're stuck with them.

You're making up the points as you go along! What you going on about with Mutch, Fer and Caulker? Where have I spoke about them? I don't recall them being in my 8 player rant? Or aren't you including them because only two are Harry's signings and that would make your "These are HR's players not Hughes's" point invalid?

I think everyone else is wrong? You're the one making up the points as you go along trying to save face and then resulting to insults on other threads? It seems that's you my friend.

Delaney puts his body on the line because he believes in the cause and is at the club because he wants to be and not only there because he's earning mega money.

I agree with you in general here Matty, but with regards to delaney, I don't think money factors into how much you put your body on the line. I get that it is a different type of imposition when you are doing it for the club or for the money, but at the end of the day, players need to consistently do it for whatever reason and he is right that we have plenty of players who do put their body in regardless of their motives. Motive shouldn't matter at the end of the day, it isn't the issue. The issue is the application of motive. Delaney is a very very below average player who can only just get away with seeming ok because of the fact that he know his limitations and focusses on making himself look good by doing simple things like blocking and tackles. Put him up against someone technical and he will have all sorts of problems because he lacks the talent. On the other hand, Barton or even deeper, Caulker, regardless of their wages are adept tacklers who can deal with technicalities IN GENERAL (Not all cases as burnley showed). My point is, just because a player is here to make mega bucks, doesn't believe he won't fight for the cause. the key is finding balance between application and quality.

[West London is Rss]

I agree the manager and staff should get the best out of them but it's also up to the individual. If he can't be arsed or doesn't care, it doesn't matter who's his manager, right?

Why has this turned into "what are you going to do with them then"? I said they're not good enough and due to the ludicrous contracts they're on, we're stuck with them.

You're making up the points as you go along! What you going on about with Mutch, Fer and Caulker? Where have I spoke about them? I don't recall them being in my 8 player rant? Or aren't you including them because only two are Harry's signings and that would make your "These are HR's players not Hughes's" point invalid?

I think everyone else is wrong? You're the one making up the points as you go along trying to save face and then resulting to insults on other threads? It seems that's you my friend.

Delaney puts his body on the line because he believes in the cause and is at the club because he wants to be and not only there because he's earning mega money.

Right yes.. But I think this team do care.

Who are we stuck with? What players are on ludicrous contracts?.. Barton, SWP and Hoilett?.. cos two of them will be gone next season anyway when their contracts expire.

You haven't spoke about Mutch fer or caulker.. READ what I said.. I said those players were HR's players.. That's not a point im making up as I go along. Im trying to understand which players you are talking about?.. Mutch, Fer and Caulker were signed by HR mate so im not sure what you mean?

Making up points as I go along? Your confusing me now because I really am not. I think you just like an argument. Stop crying for god sake...

Again you are speaking about mercenaries only here for the money... WHO are you talking about? WHICH players?....... We haven't got any mercenaries this season IMO.

[Mattyqpr]

I agree with you in general here Matty, but with regards to delaney, I don't think money factors into how much you put your body on the line. I get that it is a different type of imposition when you are doing it for the club or for the money, but at the end of the day, players need to consistently do it for whatever reason and he is right that we have plenty of players who do put their body in regardless of their motives. Motive shouldn't matter at the end of the day, it isn't the issue. The issue is the application of motive. Delaney is a very very below average player who can only just get away with seeming ok because of the fact that he know his limitations and focusses on making himself look good by doing simple things like blocking and tackles. Put him up against someone technical and he will have all sorts of problems because he lacks the talent. On the other hand, Barton or even deeper, Caulker, regardless of their wages are adept tacklers who can deal with technicalities IN GENERAL (Not all cases as burnley showed). My point is, just because a player is here to make mega bucks, doesn't believe he won't fight for the cause. the key is finding balance between application and quality.

I agree but Delaney was used as an example. I'll use Burnley as an example too.

Do our squad work as hard as Burnley? No. Why? On the other side of things, do our squad work as hard as Barcelona? No. Why?

What is the answer to the questions? For me, it's our players not giving a toss. Granted this problem is nowhere near as bad as our last PL stint but we still have far to many players who fit in that bracket. What's the solution? Surely one of the main solutions is to stop paying extortionate wages?