Warnock gone, pardew on his way now Irvine sacked

[Kevin Mcleod]

Ah ok. Nothing to worry about then.

It's only £170,000,000

Thanks for the reassurance.

Or paying for your brothers daughters wedding day, say it like that, makes it sound much better. :

[nasser95]

Also once again Jimmy, there is really no need to be quite as rude as you are acting. When you post something, expect replies. Don't then say you can't be bothered to read it and still act like what you initially said is the fact. It isn't.

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

Played the last 2-3 games is what you think, actually came on as a sub in one, missed one, started the third. The actual first team player is Yun Suk Young. It doesn't really matter who is cover, the first team is what you mentioned.

Oh my god. Haha

[brightonr]

Nasser,
I think just a little bit of acceptance towards Jimmy's points would be a starting point for debate.

I'm guessing he thinks that a £170m debt, irrespective of the various owners abiliy to either service it or write it off, should have resulted by now with a club without constant relegation concerns, not just because we don't fancy going down this year, but due to the possible consequences, both financially and potentially with the resulting effects that would have.

Amongst our playing staff, we seem to have apart from one glaring exception, a bunch of players who are either getting on in years, not wanted or trusted by the manager, almost nobody coming through the youth system, grossly overpaid players who can't even make the bench and some that ae proving every time they step on the pitch that they really aren't up to the required standard.

Two years in with the current manager and we have a group of players who, despite appearing to have a pretty good team spirit, very rarely play the type of attacking, enterprising football we were hoping to see, a pretty dreadful midfield whoever he picks, which has almost zero creativity or pace, resulting in a ridiculously low number of scoring opportunities created in the vast majority of matches. The awful midfield is no small part of why our defence is so overworked or we have great difficulty in playing out from the back. The likely solution under Redknapp is to try to buy or loan yet more players that would be temporary at best. It just doesn't lend itself to the stability that bringing talented young players through would provide.

The new ground and training ground offer huge positives moving forward, but progress on both would seem to be moving slower than some of our players.

I do wonder sometimes how some fans are quite so easily pleased and accepting of mediocrity. I'm not suggesting for a second that we should expect to be a top half team this year, or for the next year or two, but his point about wanting better than 17th is bang on in my opinion. If that is all we hope for, then I'm not sure what the attraction is in going at all.

Having watched Clint Hill's post match interview and read Karl Henry's comments, I can sort of see how a 0-0 against a hard working Palace side, a clean sheet, not losing, still being 15th are all positives, but they should never be allowed to mask the fact that almost every player was very poor to say the least and that unless we start to show drastic improvement soon, things are going to get very nervy down there.

We fans pay a lot of money to watch football and due to TV money, the players are earning huge amounts too. I don't object to them being paid well at all, but in return I would expect to see them doing things much better than they have done or are doing.

I would love to be able to see everything from a positive perspective, but sadly, I cannot ignore the obvious.

[nasser95]

Oh my god. Haha

What? If everyone here posted their current Ideal first team, would Clint Hill be in any of them? But hey, if you get a kick out of reading what I say, be my guest, continue to find the humour in the weirdest places

[Jimmy Floyd Rabbit]

Nasser,
I think just a little bit of acceptance towards Jimmy's points would be a starting point for debate.

I'm guessing he thinks that a £170m debt, irrespective of the various owners abiliy to either service it or write it off, should have resulted by now with a club without constant relegation concerns, not just because we don't fancy going down this year, but due to the possible consequences, both financially and potentially with the resulting effects that would have.

Amongst our playing staff, we seem to have apart from one glaring exception, a bunch of players who are either getting on in years, not wanted or trusted by the manager, almost nobody coming through the youth system, grossly overpaid players who can't even make the bench and some that ae proving every time they step on the pitch that they really aren't up to the required standard.

Two years in with the current manager and we have a group of players who, despite appearing to have a pretty good team spirit, very rarely play the type of attacking, enterprising football we were hoping to see, a pretty dreadful midfield whoever he picks, which has almost zero creativity or pace, resulting in a ridiculously low number of scoring opportunities created in the vast majority of matches. The awful midfield is no small part of why our defence is so overworked or we have great difficulty in playing out from the back. The likely solution under Redknapp is to try to buy or loan yet more players that would be temporary at best. It just doesn't lend itself to the stability that bringing talented young players through would provide.

The new ground and training ground offer huge positives moving forward, but progress on both would seem to be moving slower than some of our players.

I do wonder sometimes how some fans are quite so easily pleased and accepting of mediocrity. I'm not suggesting for a second that we should expect to be a top half team this year, or for the next year or two, but his point about wanting better than 17th is bang on in my opinion. If that is all we hope for, then I'm not sure what the attraction is in going at all.

Having watched Clint Hill's post match interview and read Karl Henry's comments, I can sort of see how a 0-0 against a hard working Palace side, a clean sheet, not losing, still being 15th are all positives, but they should never be allowed to mask the fact that almost every player was very poor to say the least and that unless we start to show drastic improvement soon, things are going to get very nervy down there.

We fans pay a lot of money to watch football and due to TV money, the players are earning huge amounts too. I don't object to them being paid well at all, but in return I would expect to see them doing things much better than they have done or are doing.

I would love to be able to see everything from a positive perspective, but sadly, I cannot ignore the obvious.

Put so much better than I ever could.

Yes I'm a tad worried. Sorry about that happy clappers!

Nasser. You're missing the point mate. Hill is very much a part of our team trying to keep us up, he's playing for us!!

[nasser95]

Nasser,
I think just a little bit of acceptance towards Jimmy's points would be a starting point for debate.

I'm guessing he thinks that a £170m debt, irrespective of the various owners abiliy to either service it or write it off, should have resulted by now with a club without constant relegation concerns, not just because we don't fancy going down this year, but due to the possible consequences, both financially and potentially with the resulting effects that would have.

Amongst our playing staff, we seem to have apart from one glaring exception, a bunch of players who are either getting on in years, not wanted or trusted by the manager, almost nobody coming through the youth system, grossly overpaid players who can't even make the bench and some that ae proving every time they step on the pitch that they really aren't up to the required standard.

Two years in with the current manager and we have a group of players who, despite appearing to have a pretty good team spirit, very rarely play the type of attacking, enterprising football we were hoping to see, a pretty dreadful midfield whoever he picks, which has almost zero creativity or pace, resulting in a ridiculously low number of scoring opportunities created in the vast majority of matches. The awful midfield is no small part of why our defence is so overworked or we have great difficulty in playing out from the back. The likely solution under Redknapp is to try to buy or loan yet more players that would be temporary at best. It just doesn't lend itself to the stability that bringing talented young players through would provide.

The new ground and training ground offer huge positives moving forward, but progress on both would seem to be moving slower than some of our players.

I do wonder sometimes how some fans are quite so easily pleased and accepting of mediocrity. I'm not suggesting for a second that we should expect to be a top half team this year, or for the next year or two, but his point about wanting better than 17th is bang on in my opinion. If that is all we hope for, then I'm not sure what the attraction is in going at all.

Having watched Clint Hill's post match interview and read Karl Henry's comments, I can sort of see how a 0-0 against a hard working Palace side, a clean sheet, not losing, still being 15th are all positives, but they should never be allowed to mask the fact that almost every player was very poor to say the least and that unless we start to show drastic improvement soon, things are going to get very nervy down there.

We fans pay a lot of money to watch football and due to TV money, the players are earning huge amounts too. I don't object to them being paid well at all, but in return I would expect to see them doing things much better than they have done or are doing.

I would love to be able to see everything from a positive perspective, but sadly, I cannot ignore the obvious.

I'm not at all suggesting that everything is rosy. But what Jimmy has said and then responded is just plain ridiculous imo. If I posted our preferred first team right now, you wouldn't be able to find many issues.
Green
Isla Caulker Dunne Yun
Vargas Sandro Henry Fer
Austin Zamora

In this team, there are only 3 players who fit your description.
Lets look at our next set of players.
Barton, Mutch, McCarthy, Ferdinand, Hill, Onuoha, Traore, Phillips, SWP. Kranjcar, Hoilett, Taarabt.
Of that lot, only Barton, Ferdinand, SWP and Ferdinand are moving to the end of their Career, Traore and Taarabt are the only two not trusted by the manager and Hoilett and Phillips are still young and developing. Yes, some of them aren't performing, Namely Mutch, and Phillips but the fact is that they have a lot of time and are still young. Youth players don't have to be under 19 to count as being developed by the club. We are still slating the club for giving Phillips and Mutch a chance and yet we complain about the lack of youth? No wonder they don't play them, young players will not please us anymore if they need time to improve. McCarthy is a future England international, Phillips is a Scotland international, Mutch is a future england international and all of these players have proven that they are good players, we just aren't giving them chances because we can't risk doing so.
Mutch is a very capable attacking midfielder yet we always have to play two strikers to help charlie so we are nullifying Mutch as a result. People don't realise that with 2 cm's playing, and one of them being Henry, you are immediately cutting creativity no matter who you play.
The only players there as well who we are paying unnecessary wages to are Taarabt, Rio and SWP. The others are earning a fair amount and aren't complaining, they are getting on with it.
170m looks big and it probably is but there are plenty of clubs with poorer owners who have worse debt. Why should we care about the money if the owners, whose money will go into repaying it, don't seem to make a big deal of it themselves.
How many Premier league teams play free flowing attacking football? Burnley might but they leak stupid amounts defensively, same goes to Everton, and many other teams. In case you didn't know, we have taken the 5th most shots of any premier league team. It might not look it, but we are attacking and we are doing it rather well. But we are also conceding. In Fact, the only team in the bottom half to score more than us is Eveton. We should be happy to be in this division, happy to survive and then move on from there. With time comes success.

[rickyranger]

N m

I'm not at all suggesting that everything is rosy. But what Jimmy has said and then responded is just plain ridiculous imo. If I posted our preferred first team right now, you wouldn't be able to find many issues.
Green
Isla Caulker Dunne Yun
Vargas Sandro Henry Fer
Austin Zamora

In this team, there are only 3 players who fit your description.
Lets look at our next set of players.
Barton, Mutch, McCarthy, Ferdinand, Hill, Onuoha, Traore, Phillips, SWP. Kranjcar, Hoilett, Taarabt.
Of that lot, only Barton, Ferdinand, SWP and Ferdinand are moving to the end of their Career, Traore and Taarabt are the only two not trusted by the manager and Hoilett and Phillips are still young and developing. Yes, some of them aren't performing, Namely Mutch, and Phillips but the fact is that they have a lot of time and are still young. Youth players don't have to be under 19 to count as being developed by the club. We are still slating the club for giving Phillips and Mutch a chance and yet we complain about the lack of youth? No wonder they don't play them, young players will not please us anymore if they need time to improve. McCarthy is a future England international, Phillips is a Scotland international, Mutch is a future england international and all of these players have proven that they are good players, we just aren't giving them chances because we can't risk doing so.
Mutch is a very capable attacking midfielder yet we always have to play two strikers to help charlie so we are nullifying Mutch as a result. People don't realise that with 2 cm's playing, and one of them being Henry, you are immediately cutting creativity no matter who you play.
The only players there as well who we are paying unnecessary wages to are Taarabt, Rio and SWP. The others are earning a fair amount and aren't complaining, they are getting on with it.
170m looks big and it probably is but there are plenty of clubs with poorer owners who have worse debt. Why should we care about the money if the owners, whose money will go into repaying it, don't seem to make a big deal of it themselves.
How many Premier league teams play free flowing attacking football? Burnley might but they leak stupid amounts defensively, same goes to Everton, and many other teams. In case you didn't know, we have taken the 5th most shots of any premier league team. It might not look it, but we are attacking and we are doing it rather well. But we are also conceding. In Fact, the only team in the bottom half to score more than us is Eveton. We should be happy to be in this division, happy to survive and then move on from there. With time comes success.

Firstly mate not trying to dig you out here but you are missing the point. Look at a previous post of mine in this thread and I mention the need for a balanced squad, which we don't have as clearly outlined in your post above. Yes Austin can't play up top on his own, I knew that, sure you knew that, even my dog knew that (I've told him enough times on those frustrating Sunday morning walks last year) so why didn't Redknapp. If you need to play two strikers why buy Mutch if he can't play as anything other than an attacking midfielder (though I would even question that). Phillips is just an average player who can only play wide, so what did our scouts see in him that nobody did or does? Again back to balance why have we only one Recognised right back, who is better as a wing back, even though we play 4-4-2 the majority of the time.

We regularly have two centre halfs on the bench? Brought a crock for 8 million in Sandro and have even resorted to having SWP as our secret weapon from the bench. No it's not your money, but do your really like to see other waste theirs or do you honestly think they will continually put their hands in their pockets, you can already see it being withdrawn. Have you not noticed how we were ready to spend big on a striker in Sep but now it's only loans, what's changed? Don't bank on the Mittals, they invest little at the minute, the monies all from Asia.

Fact is a lot of the money that should and could have been spent on players has gone in Hoddle, Ferdinand etc who don't come cheap by the way, and are all in Redknapps inner circle. The gamble is with more coaches we will survive, if not you might see us struggle for a while. Fair enough you might say, we have been in worst position before (Iknow I stood in the pouring rain and saw us loose 4-0 to Chesterfield) but never have we spent so much money to achieve so little. So bury your head all you want but we are in big big trouble.

[brightonr]

That may be your preferred starting eleven Nasser, but mine would not include playing a striker wide right, a CM wide left, an ever injured CM or a striker who we know can, through no fault of his own, be relied upon to complete 90 minutes.

As for Karl Henry bless him, I would put him into the same category as Clint. True professionals who despite their limitations have never given less than 100% effort in a Rangers shirt and players I could not even attempt to criticise as they almost always perform to a standard better than many of us would expect.

You may think that with the available personnel, that they are the best options, but that sort of confirms the issues that many of us have with the squad we find ourselves with following two years of this manager at the helm. Surely, if you would prefer to have players playing out of position than the two wingers who ought to be occupying those spots usually if we play 4-4-2, then something is not quite right.

[nasser95]

N m

Firstly mate not trying to dig you out here but you are missing the point. Look at a previous post of mine in this thread and I mention the need for a balanced squad, which we don't have as clearly outlined in your post above. Yes Austin can't play up top on his own, I knew that, sure you knew that, even my dog knew that (I've told him enough times on those frustrating Sunday morning walks last year) so why didn't Redknapp. If you need to play two strikers why buy Mutch if he can't play as anything other than an attacking midfielder (though I would even question that). Phillips is just an average player who can only play wide, so what did our scouts see him in that nobody did or does? Again back to balance why have we only recognized right back who is better as a wing back, even though we play 4-4-2 the majority of the time.

We regularly have two centre halfs on the bench? Brought a crock for 8 million in Sandro and have even resorted to having SWP as our secret weapon from the bench. No it's not your money but do your really like to see other waste theirs or they will continually put their hands in their pockets, you can already see it being withdrawn. Have you not noticed how we were ready to spend big on a striker in Sep but now it's only loans, what's changed? Don't bank on the Mittals, they invest little at the minute the monies all from Asia.

Fact is a lot of the money that should and could have been spent on players has gone in Hoddle, Ferdinand etc who don't come cheap by the way and are all in Redknapps inner circle. So bury your head all you want but we are in big big trouble.

Sandro was a risk and he has paid off in a sense because of how good he was when fit, arguably him missing this part of the season is better for us as he won't be as much at risk for later. Mutch was an absolutely fine signing had we continued with the 3 at the back where you can have 3 midfielders in the middle and two strikers. Phillips is certainly not an average winger, he is still 23, has pace and when full of confidence is a real menace to any full back in this league with his strength and pace. All it takes is some confidence with some of these squad players. Also, not every player needs to be able to play wide and centrally, they specialise in one position for a reason. The squad itself is quite balanced. When you consider the youth brought to our team by players like Caulker, Isla, Yun, Sandro, Mutch, vargas and Austin, having those older, wiser heads is huge to a club. Also, you are really twisting concepts here, SWP was never and will never be our secret weapon from the bench, he is there to fill the numbers because unfortunately at the moment, we are thin due to injuries. We have one pure right back in Isla because we have Onuoha who can deputise there and even Matty Phillips has done in the past. One more won't be bad in any way, in fact it would be welcome but we aren't weak at right back. Look at Man City, only recognised right back is Zabaleta but they aren't complaining.
People aren't complaining about the fact that they don't wanna see Tony waste his money. On the contrary, when he holds back a bit, people get annoyed and angry about it. We don't know how much the Mittals are investing but it certainly isn't minimal. They are still owners at the end of the day and I'm sure they are helping quite a bit. We will be happy to have them as well once the stadium gets sorted as well due to their Steel works.
Finally, lets say hoddle is making 12k as a coach at most, which is probably the case because coaches tend to get significantly less than that in general (around 1-3k usually). But lets say we are paying him that much. Who could we have gotten for that little money who would be at all worthwhile? As for Ferdinand, he was the reason Caulker came so I have no issues with bringing him in. He is also having a really positive effect on the chileans from what I have seen so he is a very useful person to have around.

[brightonr]

Oh and I forgot to mention Nasser, our number of shots.

Some would see that as a promising statistic.

Having seen almost all of them, I can quite understand why even with so many, we have scored relatively few goals. Our shooting in general is apallingly bad. Most efforts are either high, wide, at a defenders legs or no more dangerous than a typical back pass.

[QPRDave]

With the title....: Warnock gone, pardew on his way now Irvine sacked...how have we got into "our club is c**p?".
At a time when Tony Fernandes is watching as they fish bodies out of the water from one of his planes you can sit there and sl*g the bloke off i don't know.
No-one ....that's NO-ONE complained or worried about the signings at the time.....

[brightonr]

As for Ferdinand, he was the reason Caulker came so I have no issues with bringing him in. He is also having a really positive effect on the chileans from what I have seen so he is a very useful person to have around.

I think Ricky was referring to Les, not Rio.

[Timmy the Doc]

I can't see any problem with playing Isla right back, where he's been brilliant. Very good move from Harry.

[nasser95]

That may be your preferred starting eleven Nasser, but mine would not include playing a striker wide right, a CM wide left, an ever injured CM or a striker who we know can, through no fault of his own, be relied upon to complete 90 minutes.

As for Karl Henry bless him, I would put him into the same category as Clint. True professionals who despite their limitations have never given less than 100% effort in a Rangers shirt and players I could not even attempt to criticise as they almost always perform to a standard better than many of us would expect.

You may think that with the available personnel, that they are the best options, but that sort of confirms the issues that many of us have with the squad we find ourselves with following two years of this manager at the helm. Surely, if you would prefer to have players playing out of position than the two wingers who ought to be occupying those spots usually if we play 4-4-2, then something is not quite right.

Harry has said himself that Vargas prefers playing out wide and fer is doing absolutely fine and seems to be enjoying it out wide. We have Just brought in Mauro Zarate now (great business by the club) and he is someone who can play anywhere from St to Cm. Your concerns are there because you want to be concerned, not because there is actually anything to be concerned about. If Fer wasn't doing well out wide, we would play someone else there, as you say, we have the option of hoilett, traore or Phillips and it wouldn't be an issue playing them but why should we when Fer is doing well.
I agree with you on Karl Henry but he is doing well and deserves his spot. Every club like us has these sorts of players and they are just as vital a component to the cog as anyone. After such wholesale changes in the past, we can't just buy more, it would change the dynamic and unbalance the dressing room again. The first step now in January is to look at the first team and see who we can find that would be better than the current option. As such, you would have a left mid in priority to allow Fer to move into the middle if he wants to, A Centre back isn't vital as we have Hill, Dunne, Caulker, Ferdinand and Onuoha fighting for places. Right back is only really basic cover as is left back. Striker is a position that we could do with for sure but that's about it really. Maybe as i have said before a cm who can keep the ball moving in a basic manner but we can't go full out demolition again and I think everyone agrees on that.