Lower Loft Access Problems - Please Read Help Needed

[SussexR]

simple solution would be to take both season tickets if your kid cant go. Then they know you are not getting an adult in on the ticket.

I always do but that for me is not the issue. The club have a duty to make sure that adults do not enter on child tickets, but should not harm everyone else doing it.

[SussexR]

My thoughts above in bold.

This, in a nutshell.

Can I please ask again for all that support us in the fight against the injustice to email us at rangersllsg@gmail.com
Today it's the Lower Loft being targeted with badly thought through rules, tomorrow it could be you.

Please support your fellow fans, they need you.

[SussexR]

Van mate I know what you're saying, I grew up where hearing swearing was very much just apart of every day life and its never bothered me. Most of my family were/are in the building industry so also growing up with that, being around building sites/workman as a kid like you know sort of gives you thick skin against most things anyway... But thats just me, not everybody is like that. Some people don't want their kids hearing/being around that sort of thing while they enjoy a family day watching their team. And thats what the whole idea of the family end is, it gives them that choice. If their happy for their kids to hear it/see it then there's plenty more seats in the ground to sit...

BUT all that said kids do get sick, school etc reason why they can't go, so there has to be a happy medium where you can get in (if got a season ticket) without your kids, but somehow prove you've got kids....

Agree with that Nick, it's a common sense approach that's needed. Can you be persuaded to send and email of support?

They all help you know. rangersllsg@gmail.com

[TBLOCKRANGER]

My thoughts above in bold.

DS

What you say might be sensible but that's not the issue as the terms and conditions are clear and specifically say to gain entry to the family stand a junior must be present in the group. I attach below the clubs FAQs and scroll down and it clearly sets out junior must be present.

Also club appear to say if you know your kid can't make it, contact the club in advance.

Also I looked at the prices and family end is silver for an adult and u16 is bought at a concession jointly and total comes to £724, in any other part of the ground £599 plus you pay £174 for U16 so total of £773.

http://www.qpr.co.uk/documents/foreverrs-faqs64-816296.pdf

The question posed by OP is really whether or not the club are acting fairly and I reckon they are. The rules were in place at the time of purchase, punters were attracted to family stand due I presume the view, proximity to pitch, family atmosphere and cheaper prices than equivalent silver elsewhere, can't understand why now after people have got their tickets etc they want to renegotiate the terms and conditions. If that is the case I was promised exciting and good football when I renewed my Gold, can I have an 80% refund please

[Stanley]

Yep, I did see that. The clubs answers were a whitewash and untrue in places. For example I know that people were turned away and the club have not answered emails of complaint. I haven't had a reply from them as of today.

Hi SussexR, I attended the meeting and the club's answers didn't appear to be a whitewash or untrue to me. There were other fan group reps at the meeting unhappy about it and in exactly the same position as you who left the meeting feeling their complaints had been fairly addressed.

Below is the relevant section from the meeting again. Can you say exactly what the club say here that you believe to be untrue, as it seems to directly contradict what you're saying?:

Lower Loft

What happened at the recent home fixture against Stoke City? Why did it happen? What is being done?

Fan Sites - The level of negative feedback in the forums over the activities against Stoke City, where multiple fans complained about being refused entry or being treated badly by stewards at the entrance to the Lower Loft was raised. This has created a significant amount of negativity and it is generally felt that this was handled very badly.

Fan Sites - The question as to whether the Lower Loft is the right place for the family stand was considered a separate issue to the apparent abuse of the current system in place. The Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language.

QPR - Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language. As a result we opted to monitor those attending to discover the extent of non-compliance to the requirement to have an Under 16 year old in the family group.

QPR - To be clear, no one was refused entry, despite a few delays.

QPR - Some of the stewarding was inappropriate on the day and Operations have taken responsibility for this and replied to all emails from fans voicing their concerns.

Fan Sites - It was raised that over-zealous stewarding has often been the root of problems at the ground, not the way to solve them.

QPR - Next steps – the club has written to every adult Season Ticket holder in the Family Stand.

QPR - A group of families will be invited into Loftus Road for a meeting with club staff to discuss any outstanding issues This meeting will take place before the next home match (Liverpool) and Customer Services, Box Office, Marketing and Operations will all be represented.

QPR - There is no intention of preventing anyone following the official guidelines on seating in the family stand from attending the Liverpool match.

QPR - The guidelines around the family stand are that any ticket holder who should normally attend with a child but finds themselves in the situation that the child is unable to attend the game must get in touch with the club at the earliest possible opportunity. This should be done either by phone to the box office in advance of the game or in person at the box office on the day of the game.

QPR - In the meantime, we welcome any further feedback. Please email boxoffice@qpr.co.uk

[SussexR]

Hi SussexR, I attended the meeting and the club's answers didn't appear to be a whitewash or untrue to me. There were other fan group reps at the meeting unhappy about it and in exactly the same position as you who left the meeting feeling their complaints had been fairly addressed.

Below is the relevant section from the meeting again. Can you say exactly what the club have said here that you believe to be untrue, as it seems to directly contradict what you're saying?:

Lower Loft

What happened at the recent home fixture against Stoke City? Why did it happen? What is being done?

Fan Sites - The level of negative feedback in the forums over the activities against Stoke City, where multiple fans complained about being refused entry or being treated badly by stewards at the entrance to the Lower Loft was raised. This has created a significant amount of negativity and it is generally felt that this was handled very badly.

Fan Sites - The question as to whether the Lower Loft is the right place for the family stand was considered a separate issue to the apparent abuse of the current system in place. The Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language.

QPR - Club received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language. As a result we opted to monitor those attending to discover the extent of non-compliance to the requirement to have an Under 16 year old in the family group.

QPR - To be clear, no one was refused entry, despite a few delays.

QPR - Some of the stewarding was inappropriate on the day and Operations have taken responsibility for this and replied to all emails from fans voicing their concerns.

Fan Sites - It was raised that over-zealous stewarding has often been the root of problems at the ground, not the way to solve them.

QPR - Next steps – the club has written to every adult Season Ticket holder in the Family Stand.

QPR - A group of families will be invited into Loftus Road for a meeting with club staff to discuss any outstanding issues This meeting will take place before the next home match (Liverpool) and Customer Services, Box Office, Marketing and Operations will all be represented.

QPR - There is no intention of preventing anyone following the official guidelines on seating in the family stand from attending the Liverpool match.

QPR - The guidelines around the family stand are that any ticket holder who should normally attend with a child but finds themselves in the situation that the child is unable to attend the game must get in touch with the club at the earliest possible opportunity. This should be done either by phone to the box office in advance of the game or in person at the box office on the day of the game.

QPR - In the meantime, we welcome any further feedback. Please email boxoffice@qpr.co.uk

Yes I can.

1. QPR - To be clear, no one was refused entry, despite a few delays. yes they were, I witnessed it myself. People left the turnstile area having been refused entry

2. QPR - Some of the stewarding was inappropriate on the day and Operations have taken responsibility for this and replied to all emails from fans voicing their concerns. not true, I haven't had an answer and I know others that haven't

[SussexR]

DS

What you say might be sensible but that's not the issue as the terms and conditions are clear and specifically say to gain entry to the family stand a junior must be present in the group. I attach below the clubs FAQs and scroll down and it clearly sets out junior must be present.

Also club appear to say if you know your kid can't make it, contact the club in advance.

Also I looked at the prices and family end is silver for an adult and u16 is bought at a concession jointly and total comes to £724, in any other part of the ground £599 plus you pay £174 for U16 so total of £773.

http://www.qpr.co.uk/documents/foreverrs-faqs64-816296.pdf

The question posed by OP is really whether or not the club are acting fairly and I reckon they are. The rules were in place at the time of purchase, punters were attracted to family stand due I presume the view, proximity to pitch, family atmosphere and cheaper prices than equivalent silver elsewhere, can't understand why now after people have got their tickets etc they want to renegotiate the terms and conditions. If that is the case I was promised exciting and good football when I renewed my Gold, can I have an 80% refund please

It's a fair point, and we are probably in a weak position because of the Ts & Cs but this particular rule was added to the Ts & Cs some time between May 13 and this season, I'm not sure when. Whenever they were changed there was no publicity or consultation with those affected. When I bought my 4 Season Tickets, in person at the box office, I was not given the Ts & Cs and I was also not told they had been changed. If the rule was in place last season it was not enforced and I didn't know about it.

It probably all comes down to did they act fairly & reasonably, and I don't think they have. I repeat that it is not about getting a cheaper seat for me, it's about being allowed to use what I purchased.

[Stanley]

If the rule was in place last season it was not enforced and I didn't know about it.

But the club said that they've since "received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language."

So it's your fellow family-stand members who have complained about the situation to the club, which has caused all this.

Aren't these amongst the same people youre now asking to support your own complaint?

[SussexR]

But the club said that they've since "received complaints from other family season ticket holders about adults attending without juniors and using bad language."

So it's your fellow family-stand members who have complained about the situation to the club, which has caused all this.

Aren't these amongst the same people youre now asking to support your own complaint?

I wouldn't know. There has been nothing said that any bad language has come from individual adults without a child. It's very easy to put 2 & 2 together and make 5 without any facts. If there has been excessive bad language there are ways of dealing with it without victimising the rest of us. That's what the stewards are for.

Supporting my campaign though is not compulsory. I'm just asking those that agree to support us, if you don't, that's not a problem. All I can do is put my point of view across in a sensible way.

I have to say that I'm receiving a lot of support so far after just a few days.

[brightonr]

I wouldn't know. There has been nothing said that any bad language has come from individual adults without a child. It's very easy to put 2 & 2 together and make 5 without any facts. If there has been excessive bad language there are ways of dealing with it without victimising the rest of us. That's what the stewards are for.

Supporting my campaign though is not compulsory. I'm just asking those that agree to support us, if you don't, that's not a problem. All I can do is put my point of view across in a sensible way.

I have to say that I'm receiving a lot of support so far after just a few days.

I have no doubt that some may have valid concerns. But I just find it a bit odd that you want to encourage others to join an e-mail campaign against the club for doing nothing wrong. Surely, friendly dialogue via e-mail with Ian Taylor or Paul Morrissey would be more likely to yield a positive response.

What would be interesting to hear, are the options that are given to a relevant adult by the club, upon informing them of the child's forthcoming absence. Might be a refund.

[SussexR]

I have no doubt that some may have valid concerns. But I just find it a bit odd that you want to encourage others to join an e-mail campaign against the club for doing nothing wrong. Surely, friendly dialogue via e-mail with Ian Taylor or Paul Morrissey would be more likely to yield a positive response.

What would be interesting to hear, are the options that are given to a relevant adult by the club, upon informing them of the child's forthcoming absence. Might be a refund.

I'm trying gather support for this issue. Whether the club have done something wrong is a matter of opinion and as I said sending an email in support is not compulsory. You are right about us not knowing the options, but thats because they haven't published it. They could have put the options in the letter they sent out but decided not to. Why, I don't know.
I would be surprised if a refund is offered. A refund of a single game cost however is not what I want personally, although I might want a refund of our 4 season tickets if this cannot be resolved. Hence I want to resolve it amicably and reasonably by talking with the club. Naturally the more people that support us the more chance we have of reaching a compromise that's acceptable to both sides. There's no master plan to harm the club.

[BUSHRANGER1982]

Absolute farce, this family stand nonsense. Club should have left the Loft stand as it was.

[SussexR]

Absolute farce, this family stand nonsense. Club should have left the Loft stand as it was.

I agree, but probably it's gone too far to reverse it. I think the only way to solve the problems is to try and engage in discussions with the club and find a compromise. That's what I'm asking for support for. To be able to discuss the issues from a position of relative strength rather than as a single loan voice.

[brightonr]

I'm trying gather support for this issue. Whether the club have done something wrong is a matter of opinion and as I said sending an email in support is not compulsory. You are right about us not knowing the options, but thats because they haven't published it. They could have put the options in the letter they sent out but decided not to. Why, I don't know.
I would be surprised if a refund is offered. A refund of a single game cost however is not what I want personally, although I might want a refund of our 4 season tickets if this cannot be resolved. Hence I want to resolve it amicably and reasonably by talking with the club. Naturally the more people that support us the more chance we have of reaching a compromise that's acceptable to both sides. There's no master plan to harm the club.

Fair enough mate. Good luck with it.

Bear in mind though that the club are trying to act in the interests of the wider audience. If people have bought ST's in an area for families, then they have every right to expect that is exactly what surrounds them. They surely need to know who is occupying a particular seat, in the event that a problem should arise.

[Stanley]

I wouldn't know. There has been nothing said that any bad language has come from individual adults without a child. It's very easy to put 2 & 2 together and make 5 without any facts. If there has been excessive bad language there are ways of dealing with it without victimising the rest of us. That's what the stewards are for.

I see what youre saying and FWIW I'm in full agreement with BUSHRANGER1982 above, so I do have some sympathy.

I'm just saying it seems rather ironic that if your fellow family-stand members hadn't complained to the club about adults turning up without their kids, non-compliance of T&C's, the swearing etc then this whole issue wouldn't have arisen in the first place. Unfortunately your cause hasnt been helped by this fact.