Harsh on Harry?

[West London is Rss]

I actually think he's brought the right players in. We've got a very attacking side with lots of experience at a high level and still young.... BUT I do think his management ideas are past it.

Yeah most of the players are good signings. They all had good seasons last season and had good World Cups.
Not sure about Rio or Sandro though.. I think these two will struggle in the long run and will continue to get played by Harry.

I agree with you that I think his management style is way past it.. I don't think you can just throw a load of players together and say 'go and enjoy yourself' anymore.
I don't think he is/will get the best out of these good players we have.. they need to be fit, trained hard and given a job to do on the pitch when they go out there.. Under HR, they aren't.

[Nick]

Yeah most of the players are good signings. They all had good seasons last season and had good World Cups.
Not sure about Rio or Sandro though.. I think these two will struggle in the long run and will continue to get played by Harry.

I agree with you that I think his management style is way past it.. I don't think you can just throw a load of players together and say 'go and enjoy yourself' anymore.
I don't think he is/will get the best out of these good players we have.. they need to be fit, trained hard and given a job to do on the pitch when they go out there.. Under HR, they aren't.

Yep can't argue with any of that Rss! And what you've said is exactly why we need a new manager. One that will get the best out of this side, because HR certainly won't!

[West London is Rss]

Yep can't argue with any of that Rss! And what you've said is exactly why we need a new manager. One that will get the best out of this side, because HR certainly won't!

Cant believe we're starting to agree Nicholas!

[Nick]

Cant believe we're starting to agree Nicholas!

yeah I was thinking the same thing

[Geng]

I think I need to clarify my position, because I think some posters are taking my post out of context.

The context is that some posters say "we should all be grateful to Harry and praise him for doing so much for QPR because he got us promoted".

I disagree. I think we should thank him for doing the job that was expected of him - namely, to get rid of some players, and to use the much larger budget we had than other teams in that division to get replacements and get us promoted. So, yes, I give him credit there. But should we all sit there "praising" him? No, I don't think so, because what he did was the least that would be expected of any half-decent manager on the salary he is on.

Ok, how many of you are old enough to remember the 1986 World Cup? If you remember it, then you would remember Batista. He was a decent player. But no one will say "Argentina won the World Cup because of Batista". And the reason is, Argentina won the World Cup because of Maradona. Even if Batista did not play, it wouldn't really have mattered, Argentina would have got someone else in who would have done just as well. Of course, we should all thank Batista for doing his part in helping them win the World Cup, but to suggest Batista was the reason they won is just crazy!
Similarly, I think we can thank Harry for being the manager of our team that got promoted. But to suggest he did a great job that not many other managers would have been able to do is just crazy!

Yup, this.

And don't forget that we were a Richard Keogh clearance away from not being promoted. Would that have meant Harry actually had done a worse job over the previous ten months? Of course not. But the fact Keogh didn't clear it shouldn't mean Harry actually did a better job.

[West London is Rss]

Cor, we got absolutely destroyed in that Play-Off Final.. remember like it was yesterday.... We also got partly destroyed in the Semi-Final, we were only a post away from being down and out of that! When Mclean run through.

Shame some of the characters of the team have been shunned by Harry... O'Neill, Simmo, Dunne, Onuoha, Hill, Doyle.
I think we have lost that spirit a little bit.

[Stanley]

don't forget that we were a Richard Keogh clearance away from not being promoted. Would that have meant Harry actually had done a worse job over the previous ten months? Of course not.

Hypothetical and thus not relevant. One could sit here all day and think up a thousand different hypotheses from last season - but if this had happened, but if that hadn't happened etc etc. all of which would ultimately be meaningless because they wouldn't be based on the reality which was Keogh did not make the clearance. Ultimately you make your own luck, which always evens itself out over a season and the fact is (and what the record books will show) is that HR did what it took over the course of the season to get us promoted - fact. Whether some still think he doesnt deserve credit for that is of course up to them.

[Marshy]

Hypothetical and thus not relevant. One could sit here all day and think up a thousand different hypotheses from last season - but if this had happened, but if that hadn't happened etc etc. all of which would ultimately be meaningless because they wouldn't be based on the reality which was Keogh did not make the clearance. Ultimately you make your own luck, which always evens itself out over a season and the fact is (and what the record books will show) is that HR did what it took over the course of the season to get us promoted - fact. Whether some still think he doesnt deserve credit for that is of course up to them.

I will sum it up like this:
Does Harry deserve a thanks for being our manager and managing the team that got promoted? Yes.
Does Harry deserve praise for getting us promoted? No.

[Marshy]

Just out of curiosity, how old are you Geng? What was your first QPR match?

I have noticed you get into quite a few debates with others and some have been rather rude, which I think isn't very nice.

I just like to know how old fans are, deepcut seems like someone in his 40s, stanley in his 50s, and some seem like they're 15!

[Stanley]

Does Harry deserve praise for getting us promoted? No.

Disagree. I think he does!

[Kirill]

Disagree. I think he does!

Indeed he did deserve praise combined with honourable retirement.

[Geng]

Hypothetical and thus not relevant. One could sit here all day and think up a thousand different hypotheses from last season - but if this had happened, but if that hadn't happened etc etc. all of which would ultimately be meaningless because they wouldn't be based on the reality which was Keogh did not make the clearance. Ultimately you make your own luck, which always evens itself out over a season and the fact is (and what the record books will show) is that HR did what it took over the course of the season to get us promoted - fact. Whether some still think he doesnt deserve credit for that is of course up to them.

You don't 'make your own luck' though. Luck aka variance is a deviation from the expected long-run outcome. Go back to 88 mins at Wembley and maybe 80 times out of 100 we would be in the Championship this season: that's our long-run expected outcome. Yes, we got lucky. What actually happened was in among those other 20.

These aren't just random hypotheticals. We were in that position because of his management (for good and for bad), on 88 minutes that was reality. The last minute of the entire season doesn't suddenly, in hindsight, change how well prepared we were for the previous 50 matches, our team spirit, out tactics, signings, squad management, etc. That's a year's work right there and I don't think a minutes football should change your assessment of that.

The point is to look at expectations not outcomes, performances not results. You can't go all-in with a terrible poker hand, fluke your perfect card on the river, and then say you played it perfectly and that you should do the same thing the next time round. Well you could, but you won't keep your chips for long.

[Geng]

Just out of curiosity, how old are you Geng? What was your first QPR match?

I have noticed you get into quite a few debates with others and some have been rather rude, which I think isn't very nice.

I just like to know how old fans are, deepcut seems like someone in his 40s, stanley in his 50s, and some seem like they're 15!

First game 1993, season ticket since 95

I mostly don't mean to be rude, though I'm certainly guilty of the odd snipe. Often people mistake rhetoric for pointless rudeness. I think a lot of people on here aren't too used to having serious debates - hence how quickly this stuff gets personal. I don't think it's rude to be rude about someone's ideas; just don't attack them personally.

You might be referring to stuff like the 'lowbrow' thread. I wish people would just respond saying how and why I'm wrong rather than the usual boring stuff about not being a real fan or always being negative.

[QPRDave]

Omg there is some right bull spouted in this thread.....

[Stanley]

You don't 'make your own luck' though. Luck aka variance is a deviation from the expected long-run outcome. Go back to 88 mins at Wembley and maybe 80 times out of 100 we would be in the Championship this season: that's our long-run expected outcome. Yes, we got lucky. What actually happened was in among those other 20.

You miss my point. I'm not referring just to the luck at Wembley (though even that is arguable to term luck as it was a very well taken goal). I'm referring to luck balancing out over an entire season which law of averages tells you it does - hence the term 'you make your own luck'. Or hence the famous Gary Player quote: "The harder I practise the luckier I get". Even saying all that, I don't think QPR were particularly luckier than any of the other teams last season.