QPR accounts for 2012/13 season

[Geng]

some properly gullible people here.

[West London is Rss]

some properly gullible people here.

gullible in what way Geng?

[Ginger Ninja]

sorry.. why are we not run properly now?.. mistakes were made. we get over it and learn from them... I wouldn't want anyone else in charge other than TF.
You want him out? Then that's your prerogative.

We have NO debt to anyone... we have a £15 mill loan that's it.. The debt we have acquired was made by the shareholders and is to the shareholders.
As an investment, they took that risk.

Top post, agree 100%

[West London is Rss]

Top post, agree 100%

Shame 70% of rangers fans are not understanding this and going on a full attack at Tony which could have MASSIVE consequences.

[James1979]

[QUOTE=Geng;1227082]so your argument for why TF won't leave us in the shyte is that he has some other businesses, is an accountant, and has a good PR

...seriously?

The main point about this though isn't whether or not TF will actually ditch us - I don't think he will, the "muti-purpose sports arena" for which our club is a vehicle is too great a prize.

The issue is that we're now at a stage where we are completely at the mercy of a few rich people.[/QUOTE]

Really? Say they want to call in their "debt". What happens? We/QPR can't pay it, we go into admin, they lose the money. They're lending us money, we as a club do not have the ability to pay back. I can think of a lot better (and smarter) ways of making money out of QPR.

[Ginger Ninja]

Shame 70% of rangers fans are not understanding this and going on a full attack at Tony which could have MASSIVE consequences.

exactly. these people either weren't around during the chris wright/flavio briatore/gianni paladini eras or have forgotten. tony fernandes (along with bhatia/mittal and his malaysian pals) is the best thing to happen to this club for a long time. im confident that he will learn from his mistakes and take us in the right direction. all the people attacking him seem to think they could do a better job, i would absolutely love to see them try, and then laugh my t!ts off when they fail.

[West London is Rss]

[QUOTE=James1979;1227196]

so your argument for why TF won't leave us in the shyte is that he has some other businesses, is an accountant, and has a good PR

...seriously?

The main point about this though isn't whether or not TF will actually ditch us - I don't think he will, the "muti-purpose sports arena" for which our club is a vehicle is too great a prize.

The issue is that we're now at a stage where we are completely at the mercy of a few rich people.[/QUOTE]

Really? Say they want to call in their "debt". What happens? We/QPR can't pay it, we go into admin, they lose the money. They're lending us money, we as a club do not have the ability to pay back. I can think of a lot better (and smarter) ways of making money out of QPR.

its debt they physically made themselves out of their own pocket.. They wouldn't do that, it would RUIN their reputation.
You wouldn't make an investment, leave and then try to reclaim back what you know, you have no chance of getting.

Tony's a good man, there is no way he would ever do that

[klonk]

The debt is mostly in-house, so I am not really concerned.

What I would like to see is FIFA/UEFA Premier League etc, introduce rules that state quite catergorically that if owners.shareholders loan clubs money in order to fulfil their plans, then that is at their own risk and thy cannot claim the money back if they decide to leave. It should be treated as any business risk i.e. if I decided to set up a shop selling woolly hats and scarfs in Dubai, it is at my own risk if it fails.

i don't think the debt is the main issue here. there's basically three ways that the shareholder debt thing plays out:

1 - in the long-term the cub becomes very successful and the current owners recoup their money (either through repayment or by writing the debt off as part of a lucrative sale to new owners);
2 - the club is only moderately successful and the owners lose patience and sell up, but because no one in their right mind would take ownership of the cub when it's in such debt, the owners write-off all/most of the debt to get rid; or
3 - then owners give up and call in their debt, liquidate the club and its assets (in plain english, sell the players and loftus road).

option 3 is not good, but i can't see it happening. i think the owners are committed, if only because they see the non-footballing financial advantages of what a new stadium could bring.

what worries me more is what happens if we don't get promoted. i think a legal challenge against the fines under ffp might be successful, but i'd expect the transfer embargo to be difficult to successfully challenge... if we don't go up, we'll have a transfer embargo from december 2014 for a long time until we're only losing £5-6m a year (i would guess that would be at least 4 windows, probably many more), we'll be very reliant on players (including underperformers) agreeing new contracts at lower wages and unproven youth players. there's going to be a long, long period of struggle for us - our main saving grace is that other teams will very probably be in the same boat.

[QPR Richard]

exactly. these people either weren't around during the chris wright/flavio briatore/gianni paladini eras or have forgotten. tony fernandes (along with bhatia/mittal and his malaysian pals) is the best thing to happen to this club for a long time. im confident that he will learn from his mistakes and take us in the right direction. all the people attacking him seem to think they could do a better job, i would absolutely love to see them try, and then laugh my t!ts off when they fail.

Excellent post there.

[Norths]

Shame 70% of rangers fans are not understanding this and going on a full attack at Tony which could have MASSIVE consequences.

Stop scaremongering.

Tony's a good man, there is no way he would ever do that

Do you know him personally or just going off how he comes across on social media etc?

[qprboy93]

The level of debt is not the issue. As someone who has studied accounts in sports finance solidly for 3 years, I can safely say that this only becomes an issue if TF leaves. The major problem is the recurring loss, and this IS a big issue.

Turnover dropped from £64m to £60.6m
-Ticketing revenue was down from £8.4m to £8.3m
-Wages and social security costs soared from £58.5m to £78m

From the 2012/13 season, you can see how even though we were a Premiership club, turnover and ticketing was down. Expect this to fall further in the 2013/14 accounts. As I mentioned in my previous post, the parachute payments will not make up for the loss in revenue associated with being a premier league club. The current model, in other words, is financially unsustainable. Worse, the current squad - and certainly the players HR is likely to want to let go - have little or no selling on value. In monetary terms, therefore, the club will make losses on these signings. If the club is to survive, the wage structure needs to be drastically altered, and the club needs to work out a way of generating revenue far beyond the average levels of a championship club, especially if it cannot move into a new stadium soon (the current home is in itself a problem, with only a small attendance maximum).

If FFP is implemented, and this is a big if, then QPR are in trouble. Of coruse, there is legal action maybe, but according to my friends in law, any legal action by clubs such as QPR will be countered by clubs who have made every effort to abide by these rules. This debate may end up with UEFA and FIFA, who are strongly in support of FFP. It is therefore not a given that FFP will not happen, and QPR should really be preparing for it if at all possible. Like I said, QPR will, at best, face a fine of £15 million next season (if only the lowest current loss projections are considered). Worst case scenario, a fine of £50 million or an indefinite transfer embargo until the club becomes profitable. Remember that TF and the board can not inject cash to limit the losses calculated by FFP.

In short, no the debt figure is not a problem. But almost every other financial figure released this week, I'm afraid, is something to be very much concerned about.

[Norths]

With regards to the recurring loss, the exodus of many high earners this summer should bring that down massively.
Assuming we make £20m+ on Remy and taarabt, and in the unlikely event we don't sign anyone over the summer, we could actually make a profit next season

[Izual_Rebirth]

Its not our debt for god sake lol.. its the shareholders debt.. Have you read the statement. We now have Assets to sell..
The only debt we have is on wages, around 68 mill.. this is a lot I admit but its exactly the same amount as other clubs.. The shareholders aint gona get that money back and they know that.. They know and have said you have to make an investment in a new business.. our chairman has 3 business's, is extremely interactive with the fans and is an accountant.. Do you really think he is gona leave us in the sh1t?.. Your worrying over nothing and do not understand the facts or accounts

You're working on the assumption that it's going to get better one day and the owners will eventually make their money back!

Ok let me put it another way. How long do people think it will take to turn around the 70M+ deficit and for the owners to recoup that debt? Do people honestly see us turning round a 70M+ deficit into a profit and actually managing to pay back that 177M? Even if we make a profit of 10M a year that's still 17 years until they get their money back...

From a purely logical stand point pulling out now and losing 177M is a much better option than waiting 2 years and losing 300M+.

[Izual_Rebirth]

With regards to the recurring loss, the exodus of many high earners this summer should bring that down massively.
Assuming we make £20m+ on Remy and taarabt, and in the unlikely event we don't sign anyone over the summer, we could actually make a profit next season

If we actually manage to make a profit next season I will get a tattoo of your face on my ***.

[Ginger Ninja]

If we actually manage to make a profit next season I will get a tattoo of your face on my ***.

can we sticky this thread just for this very post? mods? anyone?