Bosingwa left out of Posh friendly and is close to leaving

[jmelanie]

Hope there is no pay off. When does his contract expire?

June 2015

[Ed the Ball]

The way Boswinga acted on the pitch last night was a disgrace to the club. Most people in normal jobs would be disciplined for less. Sack the arrogant fool and give him F all as a pay off. Who the F does he think he is.

[jmelanie]

Doesn't Siberia have a team we can transfer him to?

[jmelanie]

The headline on Yahoo UK is "Mourinho 'bringing legend back to Chelsea" I got really excited. Unfortunately it isn't Bosingwa.

[MYU]

Fine fine a months wage.

If players can take the mick, then so can the club!

[Tarbie]

A few people on here suggesting that we should fire players and pointing out that in other professions they would be sacked for gross misconduct........as much as I agree with the sentiments, unfortunately it just isn't possible. Football contracts are unlike any contract that the man on the street would sign. They are full of clauses to protect the players and to ensure that they are more or less guaranteed the full value of their contract unless they agree otherwise. Players also have the means to obtain the best legal support should there be a dispute and more often than not, they would receive the full backing of the PFA too.

Unfortunately we are learning the hard way that you need to be really careful of what you are signing up when you give a player a contract, if you get it wrong you could be stuck with them for years to come!

[QPR Richard]

If there is one chairman in the game that's prepared to turn these contracts upside down it's TF. I wouldn't be surprised if future contracts have all sorts of clauses in them and once one club does it they'll all follow suit.

[vblockranger]

If there is one chairman in the game that's prepared to turn these contracts upside down it's TF. I wouldn't be surprised if future contracts have all sorts of clauses in them and once one club does it they'll all follow suit.

Would make a change as TF has pretty much shown other Chairmen how not to run a club with his first 2 seasons in charge. Spend millions, get relegated, the Tony Fernandes way

[West Acton]

A few people on here suggesting that we should fire players and pointing out that in other professions they would be sacked for gross misconduct........as much as I agree with the sentiments, unfortunately it just isn't possible. Football contracts are unlike any contract that the man on the street would sign. They are full of clauses to protect the players and to ensure that they are more or less guaranteed the full value of their contract unless they agree otherwise. Players also have the means to obtain the best legal support should there be a dispute and more often than not, they would receive the full backing of the PFA too.

Unfortunately we are learning the hard way that you need to be really careful of what you are signing up when you give a player a contract, if you get it wrong you could be stuck with them for years to come!

Right and wrong Tarbie. Footballers are governed by the exact same employment law/legislation as the man on the street the difference being football clubs choose not, in the main, to apply good practice HR rules i.e. it appears in football if you step out of line your issued a fine. A player in his time at a club for ill discipline I have no doubt will go well into double figures for fines (to get a fine there must have been a breach of conduct) We can use Barton and Adel as examples of this they have racked up the fines between them

In general if an employee continually breach's acceptable levels of conduct they are warned and if it continues or the breach is severe enough they are dismissed. If you or I had two or three warnings on our file we would be dismissed within the rules of employment law. The difference between me and you if that we are dispensable to our employers they can get rid of us and replace us the next day we add no financial value to the business (in most jobs not all) where as a player has a financial benefit to a club which clubs do not want to give away for a competitor to benefit from plus the player is seen as an asset

I also think that clubs are fearful of dismissing players for ill discipline as they are scared If they do that players will not want to sign for them i.e. look at what Suarez, Terry, Barton and Paul Davis have go away with in the past

Brighton however with the Poyet incident have shown that clubs can apply good employment law regulations and I wish other clubs would follow this suit. Would certainly be easier to get rid of the likes of Bosingwa on the cheap and legally if we had a set out and publicised code of conduct that the players are aware of plus also that they are aware of the penalties for stepping out of line ultimately dismissal

[Tarbie]

Right and wrong Tarbie. Footballers are governed by the exact same employment law/legislation as the man on the street the difference being football clubs choose not, in the main, to apply good practice HR rules i.e. it appears in football if you step out of line your issued a fine. A player in his time at a club for ill discipline I have no doubt will go well into double figures for fines (to get a fine there must have been a breach of conduct) We can use Barton and Adel as examples of this they have racked up the fines between them

In general if an employee continually breach's acceptable levels of conduct they are warned and if it continues or the breach is severe enough they are dismissed. If you or I had two or three warnings on our file we would be dismissed within the rules of employment law. The difference between me and you if that we are dispensable to our employers they can get rid of us and replace us the next day we add no financial value to the business (in most jobs not all) where as a player has a financial benefit to a club which clubs do not want to give away for a competitor to benefit from plus the player is seen as an asset

I also think that clubs are fearful of dismissing players for ill discipline as they are scared If they do that players will not want to sign for them i.e. look at what Suarez, Terry, Barton and Paul Davis have go away with in the past

Brighton however with the Poyet incident have shown that clubs can apply good employment law regulations and I wish other clubs would follow this suit. Would certainly be easier to get rid of the likes of Bosingwa on the cheap and legally if we had a set out and publicised code of conduct that the players are aware of plus also that they are aware of the penalties for stepping out of line ultimately dismissal

If it was possible to just sack them like you say West, why are Barton & Bosingwa still here? Bosingwa refused to play for the club, as blatant gross misconduct as you'll ever see. Barton has shouted his mouth off on Twitter all summer about not wanting to play for us and then showed up 3 days late for pre-season, again clear gross misconduct. We're definitely not holding out for a fee for either player so why haven't we sacked them?

Not picking a flight by the way, just trying to understand what the situation is.

[West Acton]

If it was possible to just sack them like you say West, why are Barton & Bosingwa still here? Bosingwa refused to play for the club, as blatant gross misconduct as you'll ever see. Barton has shouted his mouth off on Twitter all summer about not wanting to play for us and then showed up 3 days late for pre-season, again clear gross misconduct. We're definitely not holding out for a fee for either player so why haven't we sacked them?

Not picking a flight by the way, just trying to understand what the situation is.

I know your not mate and its an interesting subject.

You raise good points I can only assume that its because we do not have practices in place to challenge misconduct. For instance no matter what Barton puts on Twitter unless we have a social networking code of conduct the first thing he will say is what rule have I breached I have only expressed an opinion.

Now if the club were smart they would have a code of conduct on social networking which clearly says in black and white 'You do not comment on the club in anyway good, bad or indifferent' and you set out the penalties in advance so there can be no misunderstanding of what the consequences are and ultimately dismissal for continued misconduct therefore when Joey goes on his next rant you whip him and if he keeps doing it he goes through the stages until he is potentially dismissed.

Like I said there is not an appetite in football to treat players how the common man is treated but in principle if you follow all the rules of employment law there is no reason why you could not sack a player for persistent lateness as me or you would be sacked for the same thing. Obviously you need to be fair and consistent in your decisions so your not left open to appeals from other players i.e. as an example we sack Barton for persistent breaching of club rules cause we want shot of him but don't take the same course of action for Adel because we think hes worth X amount of pounds to us as straight away Barton has an avenue of appeal for being treated less favourably.

The Terry incident is the perfect example Chelsea should have held there own internal and from the evidence he should have been sacked regardless of the outcome of legal court case as employment law has a different Burden of proof to legal law. In court cases the burden of proof is 'beyond all doubt' you have to prove the case in employment law its 'reasonable belief' therefore was there a reasonable belief Terry called Anton what he did Yes therefore here's your p45 but Terry and other players are assets so there treated favourably by clubs plus clubs are scared of fan backlash

Obviously the club, as the players are, are governed by equal opps statutes and the protected characteristics so TF cannot walk up to Mbia and say your a black French African your sacked, Diakite and say we think you have alleged depression your sacked or suspect a player is gay and sack them.

[West Acton]

Also on the Bosingwa incident (not knowing the exact ins and outs) to me that is gross misconduct as you state if it was as blatant as him withholding his labour. The time to act is when the incident takes place!!! obviously at the time the club, I would have hoped, weighed up the benefits of sacking him against his value to the team and therefore opted to retain him thinking he was worth more to the club (performances if he played) remaining then if they got shot of him.

In the event they had gone the other way you do a quick and dirty investigation charge him with gross misconduct give him a chance to have his say then determine the penalty (if found guilty) one of which would be dismissal but realistically what clubs do is fine the player!!!

What a employer cant do is decide 6months down the line after you having taken initial action we should actually have got rid of you back then as you have been nothing but trouble so we are going back on our decision or going to dig you out from now one However many employers naively do do this hence why we end up in ETs

[Tarbie]

Also on the Bosingwa incident (not knowing the exact ins and outs) to me that is gross misconduct as you state if it was as blatant as him withholding his labour. The time to act is when the incident takes place!!! obviously at the time the club, I would have hoped, weighed up the benefits of sacking him against his value to the team and therefore opted to retain him thinking he was worth more to the club (performances if he played) remaining then if they got shot of him.

In the event they had gone the other way you do a quick and dirty investigation charge him with gross misconduct give him a chance to have his say then determine the penalty (if found guilty) one of which would be dismissal but realistically what clubs do is fine the player!!!

What a employer cant do is decide 6months down the line after you having taken initial action we should actually have got rid of you back then as you have been nothing but trouble so we are going back on our decision or going to dig you out from now one However many employers naively do do this hence why we end up in ETs

I don't doubt any of that but there are too many examples down the years of professional footballers getting away with murder for it all to be purely down to clubs not enforcing HR policies. In fact the only examples that I can think of where players have been sacked have been where they have been charged with a criminal offence.

What I was lead to believe was that footballers live by very different contractual arrangements that normal employees, the very fact that every football contract has a fixed term and agreed end date makes them different to 95% of the population. In addition to the term of the contract it was my understanding that the players were given certain protection against normal termination laws that the rest of the people generally adhere to. As I said earlier, I was lead to believe that when I player signs a 3 year contract, then you pay them for 3 years unless they agree otherwise.

Could be wrong but that was my understanding!

[West Acton]

I don't doubt any of that but there are too many examples down the years of professional footballers getting away with murder for it all to be purely down to clubs not enforcing HR policies. In fact the only examples that I can think of where players have been sacked have been where they have been charged with a criminal offence.

What I was lead to believe was that footballers live by very different contractual arrangements that normal employees, the very fact that every football contract has a fixed term and agreed end date makes them different to 95% of the population. In addition to the term of the contract it was my understand that the players were given certain protection against normal termination laws that the rest of the people generally adhere to. As I said earlier, I was lead to believe that when I player signs a 3 year contract, then you pay them for 3 years unless they agree otherwise.

Could be wrong but that was my understanding!

True they have all sorts of clauses but in the main they will to be about bonuses for goals, appearances and relegation releases. I would be flabbergasted if a club put a clause in which stated A player could not be sacked for gross misconduct. The paying up of contracts is usually to do with a club wanting to sell a player hence why you rarely now a days hear of players putting in a transfer request as by doing so they don't get there contract paid up as they asked to leave!!! if the club decides to sell they pay up the full contract and its my understanding this is what Barton is playing at. Hes not come out and asked for a transfer so he wants the reminder of his contract or a proportion of it paid but the club are saying we have not put you up for sale so we don't have to pay you up if you want to leave ask for a transfer its all smoke and mirrors

Had Chelsea put Terry up for sale two years ago he would have been worth what 6 to 10mil in a transfer fee before you even consider how much he is worth to them commercially. So there not going to give that asset and up to £15mil away by sacking him as they know there rivals will snap him up free of charge, they loose the money then they have to compete against him which could cost them cups or league standing which costs more money in the long run so clubs just turn a blind eye to everything which is going on.

I reckon there is all sorts going on at clubs which the management are aware of which is hushed up and ignored (always rumours of players being on the gear) and while players command the values that they do for transfer etc its not going to change

[QPR71]

if you don't agree to the clauses the players wont sign...in defense of players their career is short so they do need extra protection...its a difficult conundrem