Loic Remy Arrested On Suspicion of Rape

[Stanley]

the grey area lies with (not saying this is the remy or ched case):
bloke and girl go back to room
bloke says "do you want to have sex?"
girl says "yes"
next day turns out girl can't remember it (and it does happen memory loss)

is that rape? She technically said "yes". he technically asked but turns out she was too drunk to make a decision she wouldn't regret.

In the hypothetical circumstances you describe I suppose the issue of whether the intoxication was self-inflicted or not would apply, assuming the drink had not been spiked:

"As this case revolves around the issue of intoxication and consent, it should be noted that it is established in the case of R V Bree that drunken consent to sexual intercourse is nevertheless consent in the eyes of the law. This does not mean that if a person is unconscious through drink or drugs it is acceptable to have sex with that person but rather, where an intoxicated person is functioning and able to make conscious decisions at the time of intercourse and then subsequently regrets that decision and decides to make a complaint of rape, her self-inflicted intoxication ought not to be considered as relevant to the issue of consent." http://chedevans.com

[QPRDave]

If (and i'm playing devils advocate here) If a woman can say she was too drunk to remember saying yes, can a person pulled for drink driving use the same excuse in defence?

[loneranger]

Bet there's a few on here that are glad that this rape crimes a new offence a bit like Internet fraud and suchlike.

[Tarbie]

the grey area lies with (not saying this is the remy or ched case):
bloke and girl go back to room
bloke says "do you want to have sex?"
girl says "yes"
next day turns out girl can't remember it (and it does happen memory loss)

is that rape? She technically said "yes". he technically asked but turns out she was too drunk to make a decision she wouldn't regret.

granted if she's comatosed on the floor and you've had to drag her 5 flights of stairs and undress her that's rape. but i've have "conversations" with my mates in the pub on a friday and made it home to bed on a nightbus - woken up the next day with phone, keys, wallet on the table, tucked up in bed...with no memory of what happened...but for all intents and purposes i was fine because i was chatting away and was able to make my way home

This is my point exactly!

Young people up and down the country are going out, getting drunk and having one night stands. Is it now the resposibility of the man to assess if the lady is sober enough to make a decision on whether she actually means "yes" or not when she says it? Does it work the other way round as well? I had a few nights at university where I'd had too much to drink and woke up next to something I'd rather not be next to with no recollection of events. Should I be retrospectively charging these women with rape too?

[vblockranger]

This is my point exactly!

Young people up and down the country are going out, getting drunk and having one night stands. Is it now the resposibility of the man to assess if the lady is sober enough to make a decision on whether she actually means "yes" or not when she says it? Does it work the other way round as well? I had a few nights at university where I'd had too much to drink and woke up next to something I'd rather not be next to with no recolection of events. Should I be retrospectively charging these women with rape too?

Went to see Jim Davidson last night (****ing hilarious!) and he made much the same point about his current "troubles"...its a fair point.

[Jeems]

So on the bright (and flippant, my apologies) side of things, Remy and BZ up front in the Champ next season then. Happy days?!

[willis1980]

What did the bird think they were going to do?
Its as much the girls reponsibility to know what she is getting herself into as it is the blokes to check that she is in fact willing.
Its all too easy to accuse a man of sexual harrassment, rpae etc and in the eyes of the public hes guilty before the facts have actually established.
if it were my sister involved in this case at some point I would have to ask her what the fark she was doing going anywhere with a footballer

[DeepcutHoop]

What did the bird think they were going to do?
Its as much the girls reponsibility to know what she is getting herself into as it is the blokes to check that she is in fact willing.
Its all too easy to accuse a man of sexual harrassment, rpae etc and in the eyes of the public hes guilty before the facts have actually established.
if it were my sister involved in this case at some point I would have to ask her what the fark she was doing going anywhere with a footballer

But by the same token it seems that lots of people are deciding the woman is lying based on the same lack of facts.

Names on both sides and details should not be made public, at the very least till a charge is made, and even better, until the case is heard. It would make it less devastating on the lives of those wrongly accused, and also stop making it harder and harder for genuine victims to come forward and be believed.

For every false claim that hits the public eye, there are likely several that go unreported because of fear of not being believed. When cases that have actually been prosecuted are still not believed and the victim involved is harassed to the point of having to have a change of identity you can see how hard it might be for someone to come forward.

I guess the police allow the stories out, with the idea that others may come forward, and help them to build a case, but it may do more harm than good.

You're absolutely correct that vigilance is very important and girls need to to help themselves as much as possible, but that fact should never remove any blame or responsibility from the men taking advantage of extremely drunk girls when they are in no state to make decisions.

[West Acton]

So on the bright (and flippant, my apologies) side of things, Remy and BZ up front in the Champ next season then. Happy days?!

I thought the same we might get our wish and have him in the championship if he is cleared. Transfer window shuts end of August but he is not back in court until September cant see anyone signing a player with that hanging over there head. Worse case scenario he goes out on loan

[Stanley]

So on the bright (and flippant, my apologies) side of things, Remy and BZ up front in the Champ next season then. Happy days?!

I thought the same we might get our wish and have him in the championship if he is cleared. Transfer window shuts end of August but he is not back in court until September cant see anyone signing a player with that hanging over there head. Worse case scenario he goes out on loan

This is all part of the master cunning plan...Loic will be banging in the goals for us next season and firing us straight back to the PL at the first attempt

[willis1980]

But by the same token it seems that lots of people are deciding the woman is lying based on the same lack of facts.

Names on both sides and details should not be made public, at the very least till a charge is made, and even better, until the case is heard. It would make it less devastating on the lives of those wrongly accused, and also stop making it harder and harder for genuine victims to come forward and be believed.

For every false claim that hits the public eye, there are likely several that go unreported because of fear of not being believed. When cases that have actually been prosecuted are still not believed and the victim involved is harassed to the point of having to have a change of identity you can see how hard it might be for someone to come forward.

I guess the police allow the stories out, with the idea that others may come forward, and help them to build a case, but it may do more harm than good.

You're absolutely correct that vigilance is very important and girls need to to help themselves as much as possible, but that fact should never remove any blame or responsibility from the men taking advantage of extremely drunk girls when they are in no state to make decisions.

obviously mistakes are made especially when people are drunk, but I often feel like parties of both sides dont use their loaf enough. if youre a footballer dont take a legless bird home with you as history dictates it might not be the wisest of moves, if youre female make sure you have friends with your best interests at heart around if youre going to get plastered and dont go home with any tom **** and harry. why people dont apply the same street smarts they would usually is inconcievable, you wouldnt walk through the favelas or soweto dripping in gold and designer clobber at midnight so dont be so reckless when it comes to getting your leg over.

none of us know all of the facts involved, but the one thing thats for sure is that if either party is guilty they deserve time in the clink.

I was falsely accussed of sexual harrassment (or whatever she described it as at the time) at work by a woman who was unhappy about a disagreement wed had that shift. luckily i had witnesses to prove otherwise and she had a face like a roof tilers nail bag (which made her claim even more unlikely), her smiling at me over the bosses shoulder after the claim was made said it all really. i was in a position where i had to protect myself and ensure i was never anywhere on my own with her from that point on. what really got me about the whole thing though was her pleasure in making a false claim and the fact that even though many colleagues had known me for some time knew i was innocent you always imagine an element of doubt in their minds. mud sticks im afraid even if you have done nothing wrong.

[Stanley]

what really got me about the whole thing though was her pleasure in making a false claim and the fact that even though many colleagues had known me for some time knew i was innocent you always imagine an element of doubt in their minds. mud sticks im afraid even if you have done nothing wrong.

Precisely the reason why identities should never be revealed until a charge is made or case is heard, as Deepcut said. Yes revealing names can help the police build a case but that's not a strong enough argument IMO considering the huge amount of harm it can so often cause to otherwise completely innocent parties.

[West Acton]

Precisely the reason why identities should never be revealed until a charge is made or case is heard, as Deepcut said. Yes revealing names can help the police build a case but that's not a strong enough argument IMO considering the huge amount of harm it can so often cause to otherwise completely innocent parties.

Hi Stanley there is a quote attributed to me in your response to the above message which was not written by me??? Think there might be a computer glitch on the website for quoting

[MYU]

This is my point exactly!

Young people up and down the country are going out, getting drunk and having one night stands. Is it now the resposibility of the man to assess if the lady is sober enough to make a decision on whether she actually means "yes" or not when she says it? Does it work the other way round as well? I had a few nights at university where I'd had too much to drink and woke up next to something I'd rather not be next to with no recolection of events. Should I be retrospectively charging these women with rape too?

It's not fun anymore.. since when do you ask if it's okay to have sex?

You go with the flow and if one of you are not willing... you'd know about it!

The fun has been taken away and you have to watch your every move, I think men need more protection because some girls come on too strong and make you out to be the bad guy.

[Stanley]

Hi Stanley there is a quote attributed to me in your response to the above message which was not written by me??? Think there might be a computer glitch on the website for quoting

Apologies West Acton, I accidentally quoted you instead of willis1980. Corrected it now.