Simple question

[Kirill]

Inspired by the thread about whether it would have been better if we had been relegated last season.

This season - has the club actually earned more money than spent?

[westsussexranger]

For starters we'd have to recuperate 20 million from somewhere outside of player sales and I doubt we get that in sponsors given there is more expenditure than just buying players too. I'd say no. Not enough sources of income to make our money back

[dsqpr]

An interesting question (the OP). It seems to come with the assumption that a good answer would be "yes".

However, I've just finished reading "The Beautiful Game is Over" by John Samuels. I think it was published in 2007 so it is a few years old and pre-dates Manchester City's resurgence, but he makes the point that the clubs that have been successful in recent years, both on and off the pitch, are the ones who have invested. In other words, the ones who have spent more than they earn. He has a whole chapter on the decline of the Midlands teams and how it has been the result of overly conservative management by the directors (trying to never spend more than they make), which has resulted in missed opportunities. He also talks about how Leeds and Liverpool both invested heavily in their playing squads at around the same time and when neither of them qualified for Europe, Leeds tried to do the financially prudent thing by selling their best players, which resulted in disaster. Liverpool continued to invest and were Champions of Europe a year or two later. It seems as though Manchester City could now be cited as another example of how investment brings success.

[dsqpr]

Wot - no retort from the anti-TF and anti-Beard brigade?!

I guess they don't want to put their lame arguments up against the opinion of a professional economist who has studied the economics of football and authored a book on the topic. Can't say I blame them. When you don't know what you're talking about, it really is best to just shut up.

[Kirill]

Well, I am member of the "anti-TF brigade" (more like a platoon really), can't forgive him for not sacking Hughes earlier which is the most fatal (in)decision in our recent history. My question was derived from the logic of thinking whether it would have been better to get relegated last season, before the enormous and futile spending spree of this season that just might leave us worse off in the Championship now than a year ago? Sure, the sale of a few players will recoup some of the expenditure but all the big PL wages have clearly gone down the drain. I sincerely hope this extra year has actually resulted in the club making a bit more money for the coming lean years.

[vblockranger]

An interesting question (the OP). It seems to come with the assumption that a good answer would be "yes".

However, I've just finished reading "The Beautiful Game is Over" by John Samuels. I think it was published in 2007 so it is a few years old and pre-dates Manchester City's resurgence, but he makes the point that the clubs that have been successful in recent years, both on and off the pitch, are the ones who have invested. In other words, the ones who have spent more than they earn. He has a whole chapter on the decline of the Midlands teams and how it has been the result of overly conservative management by the directors (trying to never spend more than they make), which has resulted in missed opportunities. He also talks about how Leeds and Liverpool both invested heavily in their playing squads at around the same time and when neither of them qualified for Europe, Leeds tried to do the financially prudent thing by selling their best players, which resulted in disaster. Liverpool continued to invest and were Champions of Europe a year or two later. It seems as though Manchester City could now be cited as another example of how investment brings success.

You cant seriously call throwing money at poor players like TF and Beard has done as being "investing". Most of the players they have brought in are benchwarming panic buys that nobody else wanted. I would call Samba an (overpriced) investment and Remy but the likes of Mbia/Granero/Park/Diakite/Traore/Zamora/Johnstone/Boswinga/Bothroyd/DJ is just money wasted on big wages for a group of players who havent performed enough (or havent been used) to get more than 4 wins so far this season. We are probably still paying Barton and Cisse money too and they are not even playing for us! All that money and it looks likely it will not be enough to save us from relegation. And like Kirill says the hesitation in keeping Hughes as manager looks to have been the final nail. Businessmen like TF and Beard are judged on results and for the amount of other peoples money invested they have done very poorly over 2 seasons. Time for a new plan and maybe someone new to call the shots as we surely cannot sustain the current outpouring of money in the Championship. BTW lots of talk about exciting stuff like new grounds/academys/training grounds etc to keep the fans happy but has a shovel actually been put in the ground anywhere yet?

[dsqpr]

Well, I am member of the "anti-TF brigade" (more like a platoon really), can't forgive him for not sacking Hughes earlier which is the most fatal (in)decision in our recent history. My question was derived from the logic of thinking whether it would have been better to get relegated last season, before the enormous and futile spending spree of this season that just might leave us worse off in the Championship now than a year ago? Sure, the sale of a few players will recoup some of the expenditure but all the big PL wages have clearly gone down the drain. I sincerely hope this extra year has actually resulted in the club making a bit more money for the coming lean years.

I'd say you are focusing on the short term. Bad decisions will always be made, it is inevitable. MH had good credentials coming in, and once hired I would think it is good management to give him a fair chance. Also, the big PL wages this season are offset by the big PL income. And I don't see why the money spent this season will leave us worse off next season. But regardless, this is all the short term picture. The longer term picture is to stay with the programme and continue to invest in the club, because that is the road that will eventually bring success (albeit with some bumps in the road along the way). That is what TF is doing and that is why he is likely to eventually be successful. If you read the John Samuels book I cited above you will see that he makes a very good case for this strategy.