It's easy to fill a 40k stadium if it's priced right. Please read the post first

[W12_Ranger]

Richard, You are very staunch in your opinions as always, which you are entitled to but you rather deflate any case you make by denouncing anyone who disagrees with you by blithely labelling them as as being anti-progress, and then further by descending into straw man argumenents by slagging off the poster - the very thing YOU complain about - rather than concentrating on the counter-argument. No matter how riled you might feel, two wrongs NEVER make a right. You support the board without any kind of checks and balances, and anyone who doesn't is somehow disloyal. And you are supporting them on pure supposition, or a couple of tweets a few months ago.

By immediately labelling anyone who disagrees with a 40,000 stadium as someone who hates Tony, or is somehow resistant to change is pathetic. What about people who fall in between - what are they? I have to admit, if I was some wide boy selling some tatty get-rich-quick scheme then I'd mail you immediately - you seem to give 100% faith to someone that hasn't presented you with any kind of business plan. Your faith in Tony is based on tweets and pr releases, unless you know something we don't. I assume you don't have an enquiring mind or don't believe in checks and balances? You keep demanding people present some kind of counter-plan, er what kind of counter plan? Andmaybe rather being a straw man, and slagging off anyone who doesn't agree with you, you engaged in proper debate. Some cynics may suggest you have some vested interest in this debate – and I was disappointed you didn;t have one single response to my, admittedly long post. on the stadium debate apart from the HS2 thing.

Your refusal to acknowledge or identify with the concerns of long-standing fans concerns me. You don't seem open to debate. I question your support of QPR. Not because of your opinions, more because you dismiss anyone who disagrees. Therefore, I suspect your first allegiance lies elsewhere.

Great post

[QPR Richard]

There you go again it's not about 'enhancing' us , some of us are happy at Loftus Road.

I don't want to see the club saddled with massive debt
I don't want to see a ground built which is twice the size of our needs
We will see a section of our support disappear if we moved, Old Oak Common is a bad location for a new ground and any major infrastructure improvements are a long way being realised
I don't want to see the club associated with buzz business words such as 'branding', 'project', 'multi purpose', 'global' …it's a PR disaster as we seen now fail twice
We will have to listen to endless chants of 'your grounds to big for you', which will continue down the pub, in the workplace etc

Anyway Dickyboy you keep saying it's going to happen , I don't believe it is. Am I opposed to a move entirely, no …but a 25k seat venue solely used for footballing purposes will do nicely but we will probably miss the boat on that due to our 'ambitious' owner. Therefore, I'm happy to stay where we are an who knows maybe in the future the opportunity may arise to expand Loftus Road

Just out of interest Victor, where would the money come from to build a 25k stadium without any kind of stadium naming deal? Virtually all of the new stadiums built in recent years have sold naming rights. The Britannia, the Reebok, the Emirates, immediately spring to mind. There's loads more.

I gave you a quote recently from the leader of H & F council who are aware of our interest in a move. TF said on twitter he's seen the plans for a new stadium, and Phil Beard said any new stadium needs to pay its way by being multi-purpose. Why do you think it's not going to happen?

[WeAreQPR12]

I am going to take issue with your questioning my support of the club because you are way out of line with your suspicions. Not that I have to justify myself, but I will set the record straight.

Born in Neasden in 1964, my first game was in 1973. I bought shares in the club during the Chris Wright era, was a long-standing season ticket holder in LU, interviewed by Sky in 1996 at Portsmouth for the live game, interviewed by the BBC outside the ground during the Stuart Houston era. You'll also see me on sky outside the ground the day Joey Barton signed, when he was getting out of David Craig's car. The guys who run AKUTRS and In The Loft know me. I used to sit behind Dave Thomas in LU.

I could go on, but I don't see why I have to justify my support of the club to you or anyone else. My disagreement is with fans who believe we have a bright future remaining where we are. I do not hold that opinion. I want what I think is best for the club, and that's a move to a better stadium. I have put forward my reasons for why I think a move is in the best interests of the club for which I get abused.

It's all very well for people to talk about their opposition on here, but not a single fan has stepped up to organise a protest. Why is this? I've heard the argument about 'wait and see', but the new stadium plan is happening. Those who wish to remain, like VBlock and W12 Ranger, don't seem to be doing anything about organising a meeting with the board over their opposition to the move. Do you not think such people, who are vehement in their opposition to a move, should do something about it, rather than argue with little old me?

So many clubs have built new grounds over the years, and a large number have improved theirs. It is known that we cannot expand where we are, so what is the solution? If fans think staying in a sub-19k ground is the key to the future, fine, it's an opinion they hold but one i do not.

I put my faith in people like Tony and Amit and believe they are good for the club. I am glad they have gone down the route of a new training ground and academy, and I am looking forward to seeing the plans for the new stadium. I also approve of investment in playing staff, although I question most of the purchases made during the Hughes era.

What I would ask for is someone to make the economic case for staying at LR. I'm not talking about nostalgia, I mean a well-constructed case for remaining where we are. I was around during the days of the merger talks, the collapsed flotation, the buckets, and administration. Horrible days which I do not wish to return to.

Can I ask fans who wish to remain at LR, to put forward some opinions as to why they think remaining where we are will enhance us as a club? Rather than me trying to convince others that a move is in the best interests of the club, perhaps others should convince people like me that staying where we are is a better option.

A very good post Richard and tbh after reading it I was surprised you wrote it. I don't mean that in any disrespect to you but credit where credit is due.

I tend to sit in the middle with regard to this topic.

On 1 hand I agree with you Richard but I also have to feel 40,000 is purely the thinking of someone that wants to move into other profitable markets. It really isn't a footballing decision but anything smaller wouldn't make it a multi purpose venue.

I don't care about facilities although I do know many fans do, that means leaving on 40mins to fill their face. In ellerslie road it is a problem and you do well to get to the toliets and back in 15mins. I thought at st mary's stadium the facilities were 2nd to none and although I don't use them it will help bring in extra venue.

I think most tend to feel that loftus road is a bit dated, well anyone over 6ft that can't walk properly for 30mins after the game but it does also does have some great pluses. The atmosphere and being close to the pitch is a massive plus. I am not bothered or excited by a move but if it is done in a sensible way, then I would back it. I think we should follow Readings lead by building a stadium and see how we get on with the chance of extending. I guess less questions would be asked if we were playing premier league football with a team that could compete.

[W12_Ranger]

Just out of interest Victor, where would the money come from to build a 25k stadium without any kind of stadium naming deal? Virtually all of the new stadiums built in recent years have sold naming rights. The Britannia, the Reebok, the Emirates, immediately spring to mind. There's loads more.

I gave you a quote recently from the leader of H & F council who are aware of our interest in a move. TF said on twitter he's seen the plans for a new stadium, and Phil Beard said any new stadium needs to pay its way by being multi-purpose. Why do you think it's not going to happen?

I don't think it's gonna happen because I don't think the sun shines out of Fernandes #### like you do.

So when we take a £150 million loan the club will be debt free?

[vblockranger]

I also have to feel 40,000 is purely the thinking of someone that wants to move into other profitable markets.

This

If its not 100% in the clubs best interests (not Fernandes and the boards) then we shouldnt be considering it. Any kind of debt that the club is landed with for the cost of an over large stadium would be a massive gamble and like we have already seen the past couple of years TF is sh1t at gambling.

[vespa]

I think you should point the finger at Vblock and W12 before me. From what I recall, you found all the name calling amusing and seemed to back everything they said. That's why I believed you to be part of their little gang. I apologise if I am wrong, but if you have time, read back at the comments. I just fired back. It seems it's ok for V to go around calling all and sundry plums numpties and deluded, but you have jumped to his/her defence yet again. I don't see you having a pop at his/her abuse. No, just me. Hardly fair is it? You haven't said much about V calling anyone a plum, numpty or deluded have you?

This got personal when V kicked off. I lay the blame squarely at his/her door.

Also with W12, he insults just about everyone here with the exception of V. Not a word from you about that either.

I trust you can see why I put you in the same bracket as them.

firstly both VBlock and W12 have both spoken a lot more sense on the ground moving issue imo than you.
I dont recall anyone calling you any names ,if you include " deluded " ( which you undeniably are ) as name calling ,your a tad sensitive ,i think. It is you who has called people weasals, little boys, p ricks etc
I`m not having a go at V or W12 because on this issue i agree with a lot of what they say, and they dont seem to have a problem letting anyone else have a point of view .
No one has called you a numpty or a plum at all .
If you let other people have an opinion ,you would get a bit more respect

[QPR Richard]

I don't think it's gonna happen because I don't think the sun shines out of Fernandes #### like you do.

So when we take a £150 million loan the club will be debt free?

Is that really the best you can do? Disappointed.

If you bothered to read up you would find the new stadium is going to be sponsored by Air Asia. That will provide a large sum towards paying the loan off.

[vblockranger]

Is that really the best you can do? Disappointed.

If you bothered to read up you would find the new stadium is going to be sponsored by Air Asia. That will provide a large sum towards paying the loan off.

How much Rich? what percentage? how much will the stadium cost anyway? what is the official news from the club? how much of a loan are initially going to take? ....hold on, you dont have all the answers? your not ITK? you havent already perused the feasibility study? you know as much as we do? Then wtf are you arguing about?

You back TF, you want to move to this 40k multi purpose stadium i respect your opinion. Please respect others opinions and dont get all Marshy like when they dont agree with you and think you are wrong. Not moving to this 40k stadium will not mean oblivion for the club! thats nonsense and foolishness on your part.

[W12_Ranger]

Is that really the best you can do? Disappointed.

If you bothered to read up you would find the new stadium is going to be sponsored by Air Asia. That will provide a large sum towards paying the loan off.

So the club will be saddled with a large debt, I get the sponsorship deal I understand that fully but the club will be raising substantial funds through the form of a loan I would expect repayments to be calculated on
A) being a PL club
B) having attendances above ###xx

If you think the club won't be carrying large debt then you are mistaken

Lastly Fernandes is in it for himself therefore and will want to culpable for the minimal amount of debt as possible because personally speaking I don't think he throws straight dice.

[DeepcutHoop]

So the club will be saddled with a large debt, I get the sponsorship deal I understand that fully but the club will be raising substantial funds through the form of a loan I would expect repayments to be calculated on
A) being a PL club
B) having attendances above ###xx

If you think the club won't be carrying large debt then you are mistaken

Lastly Fernandes is in it for himself therefore will want to culpable for te minimal amount of debt as possible because personally speaking I don't think he throws straight dice.

Why do you think 'he doesn't throw straight dice'?

[QPR Richard]

So the club will be saddled with a large debt, I get the sponsorship deal I understand that fully but the club will be raising substantial funds through the form of a loan I would expect repayments to be calculated on
A) being a PL club
B) having attendances above ###xx

If you think the club won't be carrying large debt then you are mistaken

Lastly Fernandes is in it for himself therefore will want to culpable for te minimal amount of debt as possible because personally speaking I don't think he throws straight dice.

You could add

C) increased revenue from non-football events

D) increased advertising revenue

I fully appreciate the club will be carrying debt, along with other clubs who have built new stadiums, but we are based in the capital where greater opportunities exist.

[W12_Ranger]

You could add

C) increased revenue from non-football events

D) increased advertising revenue

I fully appreciate the club will be carrying debt, along with other clubs who have built new stadiums, but we are based in the capital where greater opportunities exist.

I can see companies flocking to sign up to lucrative advertising deals for QPR playing in a half empty stadium week in week out. You're comparison to other clubs should only really be compared to Arsenal as they are a London based team. It took them something like 6/7 years to cover the cost of a new stadium which Inc the sale of Highbury and turnover recipients of £3 million a game. The simple fact is we are not Arsenal , even attempting a comparison is embarrassing.

Everything you are sayng is based on what ifs and buts plus a few tweets from the aytollah himself. You're a middle aged man with school boy dreams who has spent far too long fantasizing about QPR being the sort of club we can't be.

[vblockranger]

Everything you are sayng is based on what ifs and buts plus a few tweets from the aytollah himself. You're a middle aged man with school boy dreams who has spent far too long fantasizing about QPR being the sort of club we can't be.

[QPR Richard]

I can see companies flocking to sign up to lucrative advertising deals for QPR playing in a half empty stadium week in week out. You're comparison to other clubs should only really be compared to Arsenal as they are a London based team. It took them something like 6/7 years to cover the cost of a new stadium which Inc the sale of Highbury and turnover recipients of £3 million a game. The simple fact is we are not Arsenal , even attempting a comparison is embarrassing.

Everything you are sayng is based on what ifs and buts plus a few tweets from the aytollah himself. You're a middle aged man with school boy dreams who has spent far too long fantasizing about QPR being the sort of club we can't be.

Well then, let's wait and see what happens over the coming months. If an official announcement about a new stadium is made, I trust you will concede.

Unlike you, I choose not to chain myself to the past, but look to the future, and this from a history graduate

[vblockranger]

Well then, let's wait and see what happens over the coming months. If an official announcement about a new stadium is made, I trust you will concede.

Unlike you, I choose not to chain myself to the past, but look to the future, and this from a history graduate

Hold on..concede what? that Fernandes is a bigger plum than i thought he was? no chance there tbf. Lets wait for an official announcement to see what the club decides and if they include the fans in their discussion. We are not arguing that the board arent dumb enough to go for a 40k multi purpose venue that will ultimately benefit themselves i am just hoping they havent got the front to do it. Lets wait and see....i.e. we ALL know nothing concrete so no point pretending that we do (Rich)

Believe some people? Cant change peoples opinion to his own so gives up and changes the argument? lol
We are expecting an announcement from the club at some point we just dont know what there plans are yet. Did the Cardiff owner discuss the strip change with fans before he went ahead and did it anyway? No. Did the Hull owners discuss the name change? No. These rich businessmen that are used to getting their own way arent in the habit of taking fans advice so my hopes arent high that our board will listen to whatever the fans want.