It's easy to fill a 40k stadium if it's priced right. Please read the post first

[NW_Hoopz]

"The stadium is the golden goose"

Do you mind if I use that as my signature Mr Swakeley ?

[Olly]

Yes I quite agree with you on the backers wanting an eventual return on their investment. But my error for not explaining it properly. I did word it in a way that side money might be invested just to start with, to get the ball rolling so to speak. I'm not believing my own hype. I just wanted to put forward a theory for forum discussion, hopefully leading to this matter being brought up at a fans meeting where we can get more definitive answers than what we've got at the moment. I think the general mood is apprehensive because we have no information to work with. We need to be convinced that his plan is good for the club.

I don't know what will happen, but when I see a one-sided argument in any situation anywhere, I like to offer an opposite approach, whether I believe it or not, and see where we end up. Your counter argument is very persuasive and because of these posts over the recent days, we have a better idea of what questions need to be asked.

[vblockranger]

We need to be convinced that his plan is good for the club.

Need official info on what they plan. Might be a decade or so before this new stadium is ready anyway.

[Olly]

If HS2 gets cancelled that may throw a spanner in the works. They may have been hoping for the new local national rail links to the stadium.

[MrSwakeley]

Yes I quite agree with you on the backers wanting an eventual return on their investment. But my error for not explaining it properly. I did word it in a way that side money might be invested just to start with, to get the ball rolling so to speak. I'm not believing my own hype. I just wanted to put forward a theory for forum discussion, hopefully leading to this matter being brought up at a fans meeting where we can get more definitive answers than what we've got at the moment. I think the general mood is apprehensive because we have no information to work with. We need to be convinced that his plan is good for the club.

I don't know what will happen, but when I see a one-sided argument in any situation anywhere, I like to offer an opposite approach, whether I believe it or not, and see where we end up. Your counter argument is very persuasive and because of these posts over the recent days, we have a better idea of what questions need to be asked.

Agreed - and with reference to your point below - I forgot to mention the potential problems with HS2. This is only a guess, but I would assume that HS2 would have been a fairly key component in the business plan – having a stadium in area full of investment, growth and with excellent and fast transport links to Birmingham and beyond, giving it a far bigger catchment area for visitors than just about anywhere else. Personally speaking, I'm from the FDR school of capital investment during times of recession, but there seems to be increasingly more dark mutterings about the project. I think Mandelson has admitted it's concept was more political than financially sound - and this has been backed up the quadrupling of projected costs and the IEA projecting it could be double even that (80 billion). And then there's the claims the DTI were using an old model. However, the most damning indictment seems to be that planners have overplayed the economic advantages to the whole country rather than just to a dilapidated part of west London. What does this all mean? Probably a lot more feasibility studies and almost certainly considerable delays to the projected completion date of 2026. Of course a stadium could be built long before then but I suspect some of it's planning will have been based on HS2 going ahead.

OK. I promise no more boring, long posts - and I will return to my primary mission of dallying with Fat Ray.

[MrSwakeley]

"The stadium is the golden goose"

Do you mind if I use that as my signature Mr Swakeley ?

Of course mate. Just as long as you promise to give me equal billing alongside the Grimm Brothers as the source.

[QPR Richard]

I hope that when the board makes the economic case for the new stadium it will be accepted by the fans. I don't believe the board would build a £200m stadium if there wasn't a business plan in place. I would guess the owners have carried out a comprehensive feasibility study with that amount of money at stake.

Even if HS2 is scrapped I think the redevelopment of the area will still proceed. London has a shortage of housing and prices are still growing.

[maverick69]

I hope that when the board makes the economic case for the new stadium it will be accepted by the fans. I don't believe the board would build a £200m stadium if there wasn't a business plan in place. I would guess the owners have carried out a comprehensive feasibility study with that amount of money at stake.

Even if HS2 is scrapped I think the redevelopment of the area will still proceed. London has a shortage of housing and prices are still growing.

It'll defo proceed. A 2sq mile brownfield site just 15min west of the centre of London is just too good an opportunity not to be developed.

[MrSwakeley]

I hope that when the board makes the economic case for the new stadium it will be accepted by the fans. I don't believe the board would build a £200m stadium if there wasn't a business plan in place. I would guess the owners have carried out a comprehensive feasibility study with that amount of money at stake.

Even if HS2 is scrapped I think the redevelopment of the area will still proceed. London has a shortage of housing and prices are still growing.

I'm sure the redevelopment of the area will go ahead too and I am quite sure the board has a business plan. I was merely speculating as to how much the dependancy on HS2 there was in the business plan - after all they'd be mad not to include the fact that x amount of the country's population would be within a 90-minute train journey of the stadium. Hopefully, too, there's a plan B, if HS2 does get scuppered and delayed. Furthermore, I am sure there is a massive economic case for moving us out of Loftus Road. However, I think I would be a little foolish in rubber-stamping any such plan until I actually knew what it was (not that any such plan needs my rubber-stamping, obviously). In the meantime, all we can do is speculate, so to speak.

[bushcelt1]

I hope that when the board makes the economic case for the new stadium it will be accepted by the fans. I don't believe the board would build a £200m stadium if there wasn't a business plan in place. I would guess the owners have carried out a comprehensive feasibility study with that amount of money at stake.

Even if HS2 is scrapped I think the redevelopment of the area will still proceed. London has a shortage of housing and prices are still growing.

fair point and i'm sure that a large majority of fans will support the board if the business plan is clear for all to see.

[ArthurQPR_NYC]

Does anyone know what the attendance was tonight?

Because I just want to point out that from my purview, LR looked like its 18000 seats were pretty much filled...

• on a Weds night,
• in the Championship (adding this bc many make the point that we should be a stable prem team in the near future),
• against a team 13th in the table...

That said, I'm sure a few extra thousand seats would have seen a decent percentage (if not all) of those seats sold for tonight's match. I do not have any facts or surveys to back this up.. so don't smite me.

As I mentioned on another but similar thread on "why do we keep stagnating at the #s of fans we have no matter how we do", I brought mates for their 1st LR experience tonight. They've lived in London for years but don't have a club other than their hometown club which can be 3+ hrs via train to go see. Its not out of the question for them to be avg supporters (not your hardcore but still).
The one thing they said leaving todays game was while LR had character, the legroom/knee space in the seats was about as good as a Saudi torture box. It will probably be 1 of the principal things they remember about the ground. Definitely painful enough after 90 minutes that they wouldn't really consider season tickets.
While some on here whinge about 'modern stadiums' and how artificial they are, having modern seating and unobstructed views is a real pleasure. I'm the first empathize with your whinging.. I've said that I reckon the character that LR has is > the unatmospheric Emirates.

My point to add is that having a new stadium with more capacity would definitely be tenable. Now, 40k, I'm not sure about that. But with the project being 6-10 years away from completion, it wouldn't be the worst thing if we started at it now.

[ArthurQPR_NYC]

I just want to add that

1. fair play to Greengrass & Richard for starting this point. While I don't fully agree with your point, I don't think you're getting a fair shake from the others on here with the insults.

& 2. we need to keep remembering that the heads of our club are business people. They will spend thousands, if not tens of thousands on feasibility studies and the like to make sure that whatever capacity and whatever purpose(s) they plan a new ground for, will be handsomely recouped in profit. You don't get where they are in business unless you do your homework or more importantly that you pay for your homework to be done. ;)

in Tony I trust

[QPR Richard]

Well said Arthur.

As you rightly say, it would be difficult to imagine the club not carrying out any kind of feasibility study when there's £200m at stake, and a major sponsorship deal from Air Asia a part of it.

Of course, I have no idea if such a study has been carried out, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't. Successful business people like our owners don't gamble, they take calculated risks.

The 'gang of four' on here (Vespa, Vblock, NW Hoopz, W12 Ranger) have hammered the move without carrying out their own feasibility study, and they present no evidence to say the proposed move will be a failure. The only argument used is that of the current fan base.

These people have a perfect right to oppose the move if that's what they want to do, but their argument consists of abusing those who think it's a good idea. Because one of them sits in platinum and enjoys his 'match day experience', it doesn't mean the rest of us do.

IMO, our future isn't going to be that bright in a cramped, sub-19k stadium that has 13% restricted views and isn't fully covered. With FFP on the horizon, we need to substantially increase our income so we can compete, not just on the pitch, but for the hearts and minds of future generations.

If the 'gang of four' do not support the regeneration of our club, fine, but there's no need to abuse those who do.

[vblockranger]

I've said that I reckon the character that LR has is > the unatmospheric Emirates.

Actually mate the character and atmosphere at Loftus Rd is second to none its just that a lot of fans that frequent the place at the moment havent had much to sing ot shout about. Everyones favourite second stadium is LR and commented on by co comms, other pro's and even other clubs fans. Atmospheric with the pitch being so close to the stands and the whole place is rocking when the fans get going although tbh you probably cant hear it in NYC :-). Want to replace it with a 40k stadium half full of plastics/tourists/neutrals? no thanks. Dont get reeled into that "oblivion" cr@p that Richard spouts..the blokes deluded.

[winalotto]

We will never attract more than 25k average , we just haven't got the fan base. and i for one wouldn't want 10 thousand away fans in any home stadium. And all the people that keep saying 30 thousand at Cardiff or the same at Wembley for the cup finals in the eighties, there one off games, massively different to following a team week in week out. All clubs find fans for finals day.